After the girls discuss recent tech-art exhibitions they've seen in New York and London, Camila introduces Ana to some stories about the history of computer eduction in Australian schools. This months episode is a two-for-one! Firstly, we learn about a government plan to develop an especially Australian computer for use in schools with options for networking and for portable 'laptop-style' use. Then we hear about the rise and fall of the 'Microbee' computer—Australia's first home-grown personal computer. This computer, which was designed and manufactured in Australia, controlled a large portion of the primary school computer market not just in Australia but also Scandinavia and Russia, winning contracts over Apple!
References:
- Jones, Gemma. “BYTE CLUB - First computer museum for Gosford.” The Daily Telegraph, Jul 30, 2003
- Laing, Gordon. “Microbee.” Personal Computer World, October 2005.
- Laing, Gordon. “Secret of Project Granny Smith.” The Sydney Morning Herald, July 12, 2005.
- “MicroBee - A conversation with Owen Hill.” Youtube, uploaded by State of Electronics, Feb 9, 2020. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYNRcn9gg5A
- “Microbee - The Australian Educational Computer of the 80s.” Youtube, uploaded by The Centre for Computing History, Oct 26, 2017. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mp52Gb3aDs
- Tatnall, Arthur and Leonard, Ralph. “Purpose-Built Educational Computers in the 1980s: The Australian Experience.” IFIP WG 9.7 International Conference on History of Computing (HC) / Held as Part of World Computer Congress (WCC), Sep 2010, Brisbane, Australia. pp.101-111
- Tatnall, Arthur. “The Australian Educational Computer That Never Was.” IEEE Annals of the History of Computing, Volume 35, Number 1, January–March 2013, pp. 35-47
- Tatnall, Arthur. “The Beginnings of Government Support for Computers in Schools – The State Computer Education Centre of Victoria in the 1980s.” 12th IFIP International Conference on Human Choice and Computers (HCC), Sep 2016, Salford, United Kingdom. pp.291-302
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Welcome to our friend, the computer.
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We explore niche
computer history is focusing on society
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and politics and alternative
narratives to the popular story
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about the evolution of computers
and the World Wide Web.
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And we are now a sister project
of the Media Archeology Lab
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at the University of Colorado at Boulder.
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So that's very exciting.
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And if you haven't already,
we would love for you
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to subscribe to us
wherever you are listening right now.
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And the dream is that you would leave us
five stars and a review.
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We would love that.
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Our favorite review says,
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If I were a computer, I would be proud.
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And it's from Computer Gherkin.
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And so thank you, computer
Gherkin and lots of love to computer Gherkin.
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And we are proud of you,
regardless of our Gherkin status.
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Hi Ana. Hey, Camila.
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How are you?
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I'm good.
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How are you? What have you been up to?
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I'm good.
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What have I been up to?
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Mostly just work and.
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But I went to a fun
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event a week ago, and it was actually
the exhibition that I mentioned
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in our last episode for a time on that
called Another World at the ICA.
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It was a closing event.
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I was like, there was like
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I wasn't well,
I was invited to the the whole day,
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so it was like a tour and a buffet lunch
and then like another
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tour and the talk
and drinks reception afterwards.
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But I only managed to make it to the talk,
which was really interesting.
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There was quite a lot of crypto talk.
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Yeah, Drinks were great.
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I saw my old tutor
there, my old design tutor
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who was quite it was funny.
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He was there with his like dungarees
and long hair
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and being very cynical
about the whole crypto.
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It was the talk pro crypto?
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Yeah.
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So there was someone on the panel
that was like a representative of
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some kind of blockchain technology
and they were talking about
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like how blockchain and web3
could potentially help
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the idea because, you know,
like we said, a lot of the Tamil websites
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were taken down by the government.
With like a blockchain based web
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that wouldn't happen because no one
would be able to take anything down,
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especially governments or platforms.
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So yeah, they just kind of talked
about the potential of that.
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And I don't know, there's
a lot of thoughts around it.
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There's a lot of like
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a lot of
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opinions about it
when we don't actually know like anything
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about how it's going to carry out
or like how it's going to play out.
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It's going to be like,
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you know, at least a couple of decades
until this stuff will actually be in use.
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And I think we're going through
this kind of hype stage.
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The first kind of hype stage,
I think there's probably going to be like
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two or three more hype stages
that will go through before
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it's actually carried out.
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And I'm sure it will carry out.
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I'm sure it will become a reality
at some point.
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But yeah, it's just
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it's just a lot of a lot of cap,
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no action, you know.
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But but yeah, it was fun.
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It was really fun.
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Yeah.
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What have you been up to driving up to?
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Uh. I was riding
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during the day.
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It took me a minute.
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Um, I went to.
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There's an exhibition at MoMA
that I went to,
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but I want to talk about it more next week
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because I think it's probably relevant
more to that episode. But
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it was
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so I.
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I got it.
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i-D NYC, which is like a state ID card.
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That's not it's
not a it's not a driver's license.
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It's like a specific state object. But
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and I felt very proud of myself
of doing it.
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It was like I, you know,
now I officially live here and it gives
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you like free one year memberships
to a bunch of museums.
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And I had some time to kill
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last week or the week before I came about,
and I thought, I'll go to MoMA.
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And I got so I got a free membership
and I was really excited
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and I was looking around
and I found this exhibition
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that was in sort of like the foyer area
is a sort of a project space
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vibe and I actually think
it might have been free.
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I was so excited.
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I was like,
Oh, I can't do this. Membership.
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But they didn't
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check my membership card when I walked in
and it wasn't past the ticket entrance.
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It was
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like a video game history exhibition.
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Cool.
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So it had a MoMA. Yeah.
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And it was pulled from also pulled
from the collection, which was cool.
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So it was some like video games projected
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that were just playing some stuff
you could play and then some objects too.
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So they had some, oh, computers
and like the first iPod.
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And could you play on them now.
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Oh see that's that is,
you know, museums that the thing
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it's like I was going to ask you like
are the computer museums better than like
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art museums
that show computers and computer games?
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And I think in some ways
that is because probably the displays
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are have better quality, I think.
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But they're not as interactive, tend
to the ones that we've been to for me
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tend to focus a lot more on
like live engagement.
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Yeah, engagement and trying to get people
to understand that side of
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like historical
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objects and even that idea
of like conservation of these things
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isn't just about the object, but
it's about the way they were used, right?
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Like, what's the point of conservation
if they're not being experienced?
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So and my experience here
and also at the um
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is a called the Science Museum in London
that I went to you, uh, it's more like
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the objects of behind glass and that's
the ones that are in this exhibition.
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A few of them were on
like stuff was happening on the screen.
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I'm not sure if they were actually on or
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if they were like a projection
inside the screen
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because they weren't being
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they were like moving around,
but they weren't being moved.
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Yeah,
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but yeah, I don't know.
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It's different.
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They did have a, um, a book that I guess
was in their collection of designs
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for like emojis and things like on graph
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and you could
I made a real on out Instagram
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if you want to look,
but it was a, it was all sketchy and it
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was a
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and, and so you could like swipe the pages
digitally.
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Mm hmm.
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Which that's. Oh, yeah.
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I mean, if I can't touch it.
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Yeah.
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The physical thing like I would rather be,
you know, be able to swipe through on a,
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on a screen.
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Yeah, it was good.
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I'd recommend checking it out, but I'll go
into some more detail next episode.
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But yeah, I did that.
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That was fun. Yeah.
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And the thing that I was doing
that I need to fill in time was
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I went to see The Music Man on Broadway
and I rushed it.
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So you have to, like, line up at six
in the morning in the cold and
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to get tickets.
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And so we got tickets
and then had to fill in
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and we went to Applebee's,
which was actually really good.
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I've never been. And then what you,
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um. I got pancakes and
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a side of, like, breakfast potatoes
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and and endless bottomless tea,
which is cool
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because it's like a breakfast place,
right?
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It's like an American diner.
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Yeah. Yeah. Oh, right.
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And at breakfast time. So. Yeah.
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And then I had a couple of hours to fill,
so I went over to my mom,
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and the music was really good.
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One fellow Australian
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is one of his last performances.
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Wow. And Foster, who I is.
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I remember her
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because I really liked a musical musical
called Thoroughly Modern Millie
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when I was younger because my nickname
in high school was Millie.
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Oh, was it?
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She was also in that show Bunheads,
which I enjoyed just
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And it was made
by the lady that did Gilmore Girls.
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So it's that Oh, I think I have actually,
I now should have.
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I like it. Yeah. A
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studio.
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Yes. Yeah.
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In a small town it's and then she was
in that one with younger with Hilary Duff.
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Anyway that's what I've been doing.
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Oh sounds fun.
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I like your commitment
of staying out to buy tickets at 6 a.m..
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It destroyed me the next day,
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but then we bought tickets for like $600
if I hadn't done it.
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And I probably want to get some for
I missed out on the rush tickets.
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The rush tickets are like 50,
but I got mine for 100.
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I mean, we missed out.
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We missed out by like two people
in the line for the rush tickets.
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But it did mean
that there were three of us
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that we could sit together,
which was good in the seats.
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Good.
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But the
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reason I wanted to go more
so was that it has its about pool
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in a roundabout way, and I don't know
if everyone knows I play pool and
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because it's like pool is bad
and it's going to
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like it's the devil's boat and it's it's
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going to destroy you children
going to hang out in the pool room.
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So that's bad.
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And so we have to get them to join a band
and that's how it will
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like a marching band
and that's how we'll save them.
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So that's kind of there's a
that's a while.
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So I really want to add one point.
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They bring out like a pool table
that they're in
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because the town's getting a pool
that they're installing.
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And I was like, Oh, a pool table.
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And then it just never, never shows.
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I was glad I ever
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knew that there was like a stigma attached
to, Oh, yeah, I mean, that's a whole
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I should see that.
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I should see the musical then to,
to find out when it comes to the West End,
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you can see,
but I'm not going to pay $600 for that.
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But speaking of fellow Australians,
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this is my episode today.
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I did the research today
and we kind of have like a two for one
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this episode and it is Australian based.
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I thought it's about time I do a story
from my home country, Australia.
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So I was looking into the BBC
Microcomputer Literacy Project
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after we did the Doomsday
episode and I still want to do
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00:11:00,393 --> 00:11:03,596
an episode about the BBC Literacy Project,
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00:11:03,663 --> 00:11:07,533
but I, as I was researching,
I started to find
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other stories of government
led educational computer projects
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00:11:11,671 --> 00:11:15,074
from around the world, from around
that time, like the early eighties.
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So I'm going to do
a little series of them.
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And rather than delving into the like,
big baddie, BBC
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literacy project,
I thought Australia let's let's yeah,
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now I
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say this is a two for one
because what I found
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was the story of the birth
and death of a home grown
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microcomputer in Australia,
but also a government initiative
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to develop a school
specific education computer.
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And this never came to pass.
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It only reached the development stage.
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But much like what we saw in earlier
episodes, particularly the Japanese
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Captain Video Tech's network episode
where the government had been creating
229
00:11:58,117 --> 00:12:01,821
these research groups
and publishing papers with this overall
230
00:12:01,821 --> 00:12:07,293
goal of infirmities Infirmities
very much to informatization,
231
00:12:07,293 --> 00:12:12,932
I think the country
that the development itself and the drive
232
00:12:12,932 --> 00:12:17,870
to understand what computers in schools
would mean for the future at that time.
233
00:12:17,970 --> 00:12:22,174
It's really interesting,
especially in the light of today.
234
00:12:22,241 --> 00:12:24,443
Yeah, I'm I'm surprised we hadn't
235
00:12:24,443 --> 00:12:28,180
covered literacy projects more,
especially since
236
00:12:28,180 --> 00:12:32,918
we've covered so many government
tech initiatives, like you said, and
237
00:12:32,985 --> 00:12:33,953
and we
238
00:12:33,953 --> 00:12:37,957
specifically looked at that like process
between
239
00:12:38,023 --> 00:12:41,694
economic financialization
coming out of like this
240
00:12:41,694 --> 00:12:45,531
industrialization period,
you know, early seventies and eighties.
241
00:12:45,631 --> 00:12:49,835
And there was always like an upper hand
from the government
242
00:12:49,835 --> 00:12:54,640
to transform
and in format to size information
243
00:12:54,707 --> 00:12:59,111
for matters that the population
244
00:12:59,178 --> 00:13:03,315
at that time
and and part of that will require
245
00:13:03,315 --> 00:13:06,886
computer literacy for adults
but also children
246
00:13:07,019 --> 00:13:12,191
who will obviously grow to work in that
very economy that was being established.
247
00:13:12,191 --> 00:13:16,095
So, yeah,
I'm excited to dig into this more.
248
00:13:16,095 --> 00:13:21,467
I'm going to latch on
to some of the edgy, edgy computer
249
00:13:21,567 --> 00:13:23,903
episodes and
250
00:13:23,903 --> 00:13:26,071
get like my my next episode
251
00:13:26,071 --> 00:13:29,642
will be also about a children's
educational computer project.
252
00:13:29,642 --> 00:13:33,279
So yeah, really looking forward
to hearing about this.
253
00:13:33,412 --> 00:13:35,281
Yeah, I'm excited about the next episode.
254
00:13:35,281 --> 00:13:36,949
We've been talking
about that one for a while.
255
00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:42,421
Um, but yeah,
I think that was this like moment in time
256
00:13:42,488 --> 00:13:43,722
in this like early eighties,
257
00:13:43,722 --> 00:13:48,494
late seventies, early eighties
where there was space for governments
258
00:13:48,594 --> 00:13:52,164
to delve into this area
259
00:13:52,164 --> 00:13:56,535
and to start like forming
260
00:13:56,635 --> 00:13:59,471
something of like a future plan
261
00:13:59,471 --> 00:14:03,309
and then eventually like mid
to late eighties
262
00:14:03,375 --> 00:14:06,679
after the 85 crash, it,
263
00:14:06,779 --> 00:14:11,684
it really shifted to being more
about these like larger corporations.
264
00:14:11,784 --> 00:14:14,954
But there was this yeah, there's
kind of like ten year period where,
265
00:14:15,054 --> 00:14:17,990
where it felt like it was
266
00:14:17,990 --> 00:14:21,160
I guess it was we weren't sure
267
00:14:21,260 --> 00:14:24,063
who was going to control
what computers looked like
268
00:14:24,063 --> 00:14:29,535
for us in the future, and the governments
were like us and making these plans
269
00:14:29,635 --> 00:14:32,471
and it didn't really work out that way
even.
270
00:14:32,471 --> 00:14:33,472
Yeah.
271
00:14:33,472 --> 00:14:35,975
So let's begin with that.
272
00:14:35,975 --> 00:14:38,978
With this computer that was
273
00:14:39,211 --> 00:14:43,115
the hopeful computer,
the dream of a computer in Australia.
274
00:14:43,182 --> 00:14:48,621
And then part two will look at an
Australian computer called the Micro B,
275
00:14:48,721 --> 00:14:49,955
and I will say that
276
00:14:49,955 --> 00:14:53,826
a lot of the information
in this first section comes from research.
277
00:14:53,826 --> 00:14:54,960
I called Arthur Tuttle
278
00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:59,698
and he wrote specifically to papers
The Australian educational Computer
279
00:14:59,698 --> 00:15:06,071
that never was, and a history of early
Australian design computers.
280
00:15:06,171 --> 00:15:09,241
So we've been doing a lot of episodes
281
00:15:09,241 --> 00:15:14,013
focusing on this early computer
era, late seventies, early eighties.
282
00:15:14,079 --> 00:15:17,850
And I think some of the things
that we've learned the key to remember
283
00:15:17,850 --> 00:15:22,254
here is firstly that division
between computer markets,
284
00:15:22,321 --> 00:15:25,224
the business computer market
and the home computer market,
285
00:15:25,224 --> 00:15:28,827
and that these were seen as quite separate
during this time.
286
00:15:28,894 --> 00:15:32,798
The business market,
which particularly IBM was very focused
287
00:15:32,798 --> 00:15:36,969
on, had a higher price point
and a lot of software development.
288
00:15:37,036 --> 00:15:41,740
And this software was often marketed
as replacing preexisting mechanisms
289
00:15:41,740 --> 00:15:45,811
within the office and often
that was done manually by my secretaries.
290
00:15:45,811 --> 00:15:49,782
So word processing, data entry,
that sort of thing.
291
00:15:49,882 --> 00:15:53,085
On the other hand,
there were a lot of smaller players
292
00:15:53,185 --> 00:15:56,822
coming into the home computer market
and like we saw in the Calico
293
00:15:56,822 --> 00:16:01,593
Adam episode, many of these
were actually video game companies
294
00:16:01,660 --> 00:16:05,698
and it took a much longer
time for the industry to work out
295
00:16:05,698 --> 00:16:10,102
where the computer fit
within the household and who it was for.
296
00:16:10,202 --> 00:16:13,405
We see it in in so much
advertising from this era.
297
00:16:13,472 --> 00:16:16,875
Like was it for the father to have in
his man cave and play games?
298
00:16:16,875 --> 00:16:20,713
Was it for the kids,
usually the son to do homework
299
00:16:20,779 --> 00:16:24,450
or for the mother to keep recipes
and make menus?
300
00:16:24,516 --> 00:16:28,320
There wasn't really much software
being made specifically
301
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:34,526
for home computers,
so it was quite a different market.
302
00:16:34,593 --> 00:16:35,327
Now, sitting
303
00:16:35,327 --> 00:16:39,264
somewhere in between these two
was the education computer market.
304
00:16:39,264 --> 00:16:42,901
So computers that would go into schools,
305
00:16:42,968 --> 00:16:47,272
particularly in primary school
in Australia, that's prep to grade six.
306
00:16:47,272 --> 00:16:51,543
I don't know what that is
in other countries.
307
00:16:51,610 --> 00:16:53,912
Grade six, what, what H what?
308
00:16:53,912 --> 00:16:58,951
I think that's like age five through
309
00:16:59,018 --> 00:17:00,119
12. Yeah.
310
00:17:00,119 --> 00:17:01,920
That's like elementary.
311
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:03,789
Elementary school. Yeah.
312
00:17:03,789 --> 00:17:07,159
So in primary schools, these computers
were coming mostly from the home
313
00:17:07,159 --> 00:17:12,464
computer market because they were cheaper
and, and easier to use,
314
00:17:12,564 --> 00:17:16,068
but they also had the same issues
where it wasn't quite laid out yet,
315
00:17:16,068 --> 00:17:20,139
what sort of software was needed
or how they would be used.
316
00:17:20,205 --> 00:17:20,572
Yeah.
317
00:17:20,572 --> 00:17:25,811
And I guess they also
they probably lacked funding
318
00:17:25,878 --> 00:17:28,814
the most out of all of three markets.
319
00:17:28,814 --> 00:17:31,216
Education obviously is
320
00:17:31,216 --> 00:17:34,653
just like lacks
funding compared to business market.
321
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:35,120
Yeah.
322
00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:39,792
And I think as we'll see later,
that the funding can be kind of volatile
323
00:17:39,858 --> 00:17:44,263
because it's it's often
coming from the government and government
324
00:17:44,329 --> 00:17:47,499
governments change
and they have different priorities
325
00:17:47,499 --> 00:17:52,504
at different points in the elect
electoral cycle and things. So,
326
00:17:52,571 --> 00:17:54,206
so early on computers
327
00:17:54,206 --> 00:17:57,943
are mostly used in schools
to learn computer programing
328
00:17:58,010 --> 00:18:03,348
and to play games, and there were specific
educational games around and later
329
00:18:03,348 --> 00:18:07,152
that would turn into the edutainment
computer game industry.
330
00:18:07,386 --> 00:18:11,790
And I would say led by my favorite Carmen
Sandiego, I think you go,
331
00:18:11,790 --> 00:18:15,761
Yes, I'm sure listeners have heard me
talk of her before.
332
00:18:15,761 --> 00:18:19,731
I have a pro Carmen San Diego
specific project that I,
333
00:18:19,832 --> 00:18:23,035
I can I finished
but might be coming back soon.
334
00:18:23,035 --> 00:18:25,304
So I love her.
335
00:18:25,304 --> 00:18:30,342
I also love
Carmen San Diego through through you
336
00:18:30,442 --> 00:18:31,643
edutainment.
337
00:18:31,643 --> 00:18:35,614
What it it's it's word
yeah I think that was specifically
338
00:18:35,614 --> 00:18:39,785
in that era like nineties era
339
00:18:39,852 --> 00:18:42,354
broadband the company that may come in
340
00:18:42,354 --> 00:18:46,592
San Diego did a lot of these games. Yeah
341
00:18:46,658 --> 00:18:47,326
often
342
00:18:47,326 --> 00:18:51,864
computers in schools in these early days
were championed by specific teachers
343
00:18:51,930 --> 00:18:54,867
with the niche interest of computing.
344
00:18:54,867 --> 00:18:58,337
Often this was picked up
during that university study
345
00:18:58,437 --> 00:19:02,875
because that's where most computers
were being used in the early days,
346
00:19:02,941 --> 00:19:06,245
and it wasn't really part
of the official school curriculum.
347
00:19:06,245 --> 00:19:11,316
It was just these teachers being like,
Hey, I think this is cool and important.
348
00:19:11,383 --> 00:19:15,287
The other thing was that
there were a lot of a lot of companies
349
00:19:15,287 --> 00:19:19,925
pushing microcomputers to schools,
and this made it very confusing.
350
00:19:19,925 --> 00:19:22,928
There were so many different models
and software packages that
351
00:19:22,928 --> 00:19:26,965
even if the government wanted to,
it was exceedingly hard to integrate
352
00:19:26,965 --> 00:19:31,236
computing into the school curriculum
and had to provide hardware
353
00:19:31,236 --> 00:19:36,608
and software support to these
usually incompatible microcomputers.
354
00:19:36,675 --> 00:19:38,810
Because of this, by
355
00:19:38,810 --> 00:19:42,414
around the mid eighties,
many countries were looking at the idea
356
00:19:42,414 --> 00:19:47,653
of developing their own microcomputer
specifically for use in their schools.
357
00:19:47,719 --> 00:19:52,257
Many of these were Commonwealth countries,
so the UK and New Zealand.
358
00:19:52,324 --> 00:19:56,061
The story here in Australia and Canada
and outside
359
00:19:56,061 --> 00:20:00,465
the Commonwealth, Sweden
had a program as well.
360
00:20:00,566 --> 00:20:04,570
So Australia has the Federal Government
and then eight main states
361
00:20:04,570 --> 00:20:05,304
and territories.
362
00:20:05,304 --> 00:20:08,840
Underneath that those states
and territories controlled
363
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,277
their own education plans and curriculum.
364
00:20:12,344 --> 00:20:16,715
At this point each state had their own
preferred provider lists for hardware
365
00:20:16,715 --> 00:20:20,919
and software, which usually included
Eikon, BBC Computers,
366
00:20:21,153 --> 00:20:25,691
Commodore Apple TOS or Micro B computers,
which we'll talk about later
367
00:20:25,757 --> 00:20:30,262
in this episode,
and also provided some sort of support.
368
00:20:30,262 --> 00:20:35,000
Center office
sometimes states also work together.
369
00:20:35,033 --> 00:20:40,639
My favorite of these just because
it's funny when the states of Tasmania,
370
00:20:40,739 --> 00:20:45,444
South Australia and Western Australia
who had a computer education
371
00:20:45,510 --> 00:20:48,714
project together called Tozawa,
372
00:20:48,780 --> 00:20:52,017
so which are the codes of the states
linked together.
373
00:20:52,017 --> 00:20:56,488
So ties to for Tasmania
and then sharing the SSA
374
00:20:56,488 --> 00:20:59,291
for South Australia
and WA for Western Australia.
375
00:20:59,291 --> 00:21:03,829
Tozawa So it's like a celebrity therapy.
376
00:21:03,862 --> 00:21:07,933
Yeah, yeah,
yeah. They've, they've been shipped
377
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,436
by ship so, so
378
00:21:11,503 --> 00:21:13,739
was like fanfiction
379
00:21:13,739 --> 00:21:16,642
and everything.
380
00:21:16,642 --> 00:21:21,246
But in 1983
the Australian Federal Government
381
00:21:21,313 --> 00:21:25,884
set up the National Advisory
Committee on Computers in Schools
382
00:21:25,951 --> 00:21:30,922
and they would plan a national computer
education program
383
00:21:31,023 --> 00:21:32,124
when completed.
384
00:21:32,124 --> 00:21:35,193
This would give those states advice
on things like
385
00:21:35,193 --> 00:21:38,697
curriculum, hardware,
software and support.
386
00:21:38,764 --> 00:21:42,968
But through this process,
the National Advisory Committee also began
387
00:21:42,968 --> 00:21:46,805
developing a new computer
specifically for Australian schools
388
00:21:46,805 --> 00:21:53,145
called the Australian Educational
Computer, or the AEC, which to me AEC
389
00:21:53,145 --> 00:21:57,683
stands for Australian Electoral Commission
because I love elections
390
00:21:57,749 --> 00:22:00,052
and I usually work the election
391
00:22:00,052 --> 00:22:03,055
and the AEC is an
392
00:22:03,121 --> 00:22:04,523
important acronym.
393
00:22:04,523 --> 00:22:07,326
Acronym, Yeah.
394
00:22:07,326 --> 00:22:09,695
So this would be great for students
395
00:22:09,695 --> 00:22:13,632
because they would have specific software
for the Australian curriculum
396
00:22:13,632 --> 00:22:19,338
and it's good for the Australian business
businesses and the electronics industry
397
00:22:19,338 --> 00:22:22,341
which would be tasked
with creating all of this.
398
00:22:22,407 --> 00:22:27,045
See, this is a paragraph that I enjoyed
from Atherton
399
00:22:27,212 --> 00:22:31,083
in the Australian Education
Computer that never was, which lays out
400
00:22:31,083 --> 00:22:32,851
the cultural differences
401
00:22:32,851 --> 00:22:36,722
which made it important to develop
Australian specific software.
402
00:22:36,755 --> 00:22:40,025
So there was already some being developed
403
00:22:40,025 --> 00:22:44,196
for preexisting computers,
specifically the microwave.
404
00:22:44,262 --> 00:22:46,431
So the quote goes clearly good
405
00:22:46,431 --> 00:22:50,235
educational software was needed
and would need to be developed.
406
00:22:50,335 --> 00:22:54,673
Although computers like the Apple two
and Commodore had a significant amount
407
00:22:54,673 --> 00:22:57,676
of software that could be considered
for use in schools,
408
00:22:57,709 --> 00:23:02,147
the available software often referenced
American culture and terminology.
409
00:23:02,247 --> 00:23:06,251
For example,
the Apple two simulation game Lemonade
410
00:23:06,318 --> 00:23:09,955
was based on making
and selling lemonade from a street stall,
411
00:23:10,021 --> 00:23:14,092
although this had some merit in terms
of teaching students about mathematics.
412
00:23:14,092 --> 00:23:19,898
And one aspect of doing business, lemonade
stands for almost unknown in Australia.
413
00:23:19,965 --> 00:23:23,969
Also,
Americans might root for a sporting team,
414
00:23:24,035 --> 00:23:27,839
but this word has quite another meaning
in Australia, where we use the word
415
00:23:27,839 --> 00:23:29,307
barrack instead.
416
00:23:29,307 --> 00:23:31,777
I like that
he doesn't say what that word makes.
417
00:23:31,777 --> 00:23:33,712
Yeah,
418
00:23:33,712 --> 00:23:36,415
it's a it's a it's a naughty word.
419
00:23:36,415 --> 00:23:39,618
Another slightly later
example is the trash
420
00:23:39,618 --> 00:23:42,654
can on the Apple Macintosh in Australia.
421
00:23:42,654 --> 00:23:45,424
We put our waste in a rubbish bin.
422
00:23:45,424 --> 00:23:48,927
I really like this
because I've been working on a,
423
00:23:49,027 --> 00:23:53,365
a project
that looks at trash cans or rubbish bins
424
00:23:53,565 --> 00:23:57,235
and I started the project in Australia
and I'm now continuing it in the U.S.
425
00:23:57,235 --> 00:24:01,773
and it's been a real like mind shift to
have to change the terminology, it felt.
426
00:24:01,773 --> 00:24:05,844
So we had access to say,
Yeah, trash, trash can.
427
00:24:05,911 --> 00:24:07,345
I think
428
00:24:07,412 --> 00:24:09,281
operating systems now
429
00:24:09,281 --> 00:24:13,385
convert like that language
to where you're from, right?
430
00:24:13,385 --> 00:24:15,987
I mean, obviously you can have
431
00:24:15,987 --> 00:24:19,458
language, you can specify your language
when you start up your computer.
432
00:24:19,458 --> 00:24:25,630
But but like when I go into my mind
says trying minds has been to write
433
00:24:25,664 --> 00:24:30,902
to Americans, two Americans,
one say, Canada, slash, maybe.
434
00:24:30,902 --> 00:24:33,872
I don't know. Can we find out?
435
00:24:33,872 --> 00:24:34,773
So yes, no.
436
00:24:34,773 --> 00:24:37,843
And the kind I never realized I was.
437
00:24:37,909 --> 00:24:42,280
I just realized, Oh, yeah,
438
00:24:42,347 --> 00:24:44,683
I'm just staring at it now.
439
00:24:44,683 --> 00:24:45,417
You know what?
440
00:24:45,417 --> 00:24:48,286
I saw an exhibition.
441
00:24:48,286 --> 00:24:50,555
I'm trying to remember what it was.
442
00:24:50,555 --> 00:24:53,792
I saw an exhibition last week.
443
00:24:53,992 --> 00:24:58,830
All it was was a projection of the trash,
444
00:24:59,030 --> 00:25:02,033
the apple trash can on the wall.
445
00:25:02,067 --> 00:25:03,134
It was really great.
446
00:25:03,134 --> 00:25:07,706
It was by seal floor. It's called trash.
447
00:25:07,772 --> 00:25:08,206
And it's.
448
00:25:08,206 --> 00:25:09,941
Yeah, it's just like the trash can.
449
00:25:09,941 --> 00:25:15,247
Quite large sort of should be called bin
I know.
450
00:25:15,313 --> 00:25:18,517
Projected on the on the wall
but like near the floor
451
00:25:18,583 --> 00:25:22,888
so so far for his practice addresses
notions of the uncanny, the humorous
452
00:25:22,888 --> 00:25:26,124
and the absurd through deceptively
simple means yet
453
00:25:26,191 --> 00:25:29,194
to deeply nuanced effects.
454
00:25:29,227 --> 00:25:31,830
So it's called trash, right?
455
00:25:31,830 --> 00:25:35,000
Trash is the silent projection of a
still image of a trash bin adopted
456
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,003
from the OSX operating system for Mac.
457
00:25:38,136 --> 00:25:42,240
So I'm guessing that I'm guessing
it means that says trash.
458
00:25:42,374 --> 00:25:44,910
Wow. Yeah. Okay.
459
00:25:44,910 --> 00:25:46,811
Jimmy, that
460
00:25:46,811 --> 00:25:48,847
okay?
461
00:25:48,847 --> 00:25:51,616
I might as well.
462
00:25:51,616 --> 00:25:53,118
So so
463
00:25:53,118 --> 00:25:56,154
so they created and in 1985
another offshoot
464
00:25:56,388 --> 00:25:59,758
a working group called the education
technical requirement
465
00:25:59,758 --> 00:26:02,894
working pot
that Arthur Tackle was a part of.
466
00:26:02,894 --> 00:26:05,130
So that's why he knows so much.
467
00:26:05,130 --> 00:26:10,001
And they dreamed and planned
and developed a new computer.
468
00:26:10,101 --> 00:26:13,705
One of the more interesting
and I would say important points that
469
00:26:13,705 --> 00:26:18,543
that techno lays out is the desire for it
to have multiple forms of use.
470
00:26:18,610 --> 00:26:22,447
And I think this is really where it shows
what was being dreamed of
471
00:26:22,447 --> 00:26:26,051
for the future of
of classrooms and education
472
00:26:26,151 --> 00:26:29,688
as we were just wanting to reckon
with the possibilities
473
00:26:29,688 --> 00:26:33,625
of an integration of schools
and computers.
474
00:26:33,692 --> 00:26:35,760
Yeah, that's really good.
475
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:41,032
I when you were reciting that article,
I was getting kind of worried and a bit
476
00:26:41,032 --> 00:26:47,272
frustrated by the possibility of them just
scrapping the idea of the edu computer.
477
00:26:47,305 --> 00:26:53,044
I'm just going to use education
for a portmanteau for everything now.
478
00:26:53,111 --> 00:26:53,445
Yeah.
479
00:26:53,445 --> 00:26:57,749
And that just, just because
of a few kind of semantic problems
480
00:26:57,816 --> 00:26:59,517
that they would just scrap it.
481
00:26:59,517 --> 00:27:02,053
But I'm glad that they instead
tried to just see it
482
00:27:02,053 --> 00:27:05,490
as like a disadvantage
rather than a problem and kind of build
483
00:27:05,490 --> 00:27:09,861
something on top of that or something
that would replace the original machine.
484
00:27:09,861 --> 00:27:11,763
So they didn't just kind of,
485
00:27:11,763 --> 00:27:14,733
yeah, scrap the whole concept
because it was too American.
486
00:27:14,733 --> 00:27:16,735
I think that's that's really good.
487
00:27:16,735 --> 00:27:22,140
But the other thing I was going to say
is that I also really like
488
00:27:22,140 --> 00:27:27,312
this idea of engineering specifically like
489
00:27:27,412 --> 00:27:30,649
engineering specific objects for learning,
490
00:27:30,649 --> 00:27:35,320
because I'm sure that the engineers for
491
00:27:35,387 --> 00:27:38,690
Arthur Capital
and his team had to figure out ways
492
00:27:38,690 --> 00:27:42,661
of building these things
and finding issues with the original
493
00:27:42,661 --> 00:27:47,766
and kind of like reverse engineering,
the learning about the learning processes
494
00:27:47,766 --> 00:27:51,002
in schools and then out of that
495
00:27:51,002 --> 00:27:55,173
kind of make something to support
the development of learning even further.
496
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,275
So it's kind of like
497
00:27:57,342 --> 00:27:59,678
you're learning yourself for
498
00:27:59,678 --> 00:28:05,750
the sake of improving learning and a cycle
that's just really quite profound.
499
00:28:05,750 --> 00:28:09,421
And it must be very fulfilling to
to be able to do that.
500
00:28:09,421 --> 00:28:11,222
I think it's very cool
501
00:28:11,222 --> 00:28:15,860
and I think that the the process
is this sort of understanding
502
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,732
of the specifics of Australian
learning in Australian schools.
503
00:28:20,732 --> 00:28:24,736
And you know, they had had computers
in schools for quite a while
504
00:28:24,736 --> 00:28:30,175
by this point, but they, you know,
the McRobbie was Australian specific.
505
00:28:30,175 --> 00:28:33,178
But if we're looking at like the Apple two
and things,
506
00:28:33,411 --> 00:28:35,647
you know, they could see with, with
507
00:28:35,647 --> 00:28:39,150
like lemonade the trashcan thing,
508
00:28:39,217 --> 00:28:41,619
what, what wasn't working.
509
00:28:41,619 --> 00:28:45,790
I think like they need
they probably needed to
510
00:28:45,857 --> 00:28:50,261
have experienced
something that wasn't quite right for them
511
00:28:50,361 --> 00:28:55,066
before they could develop something
that was very specific for them.
512
00:28:55,100 --> 00:28:59,237
Yeah, Yeah. I mean yeah.
513
00:28:59,337 --> 00:29:02,874
So the three uses outlined by the report
514
00:29:02,941 --> 00:29:08,279
were personal, what they called
a portable battery powered computer.
515
00:29:08,279 --> 00:29:10,148
Basically a laptop.
516
00:29:10,148 --> 00:29:15,019
But because of the cost of LCD screens,
they also considered a transportable
517
00:29:15,019 --> 00:29:18,923
version, which in my head a portable
versus transportable just tells.
518
00:29:18,990 --> 00:29:22,293
I took me a while to work out
what the difference is, but I think that
519
00:29:22,293 --> 00:29:25,663
the transportable
version is just a computer
520
00:29:25,663 --> 00:29:28,666
that would connect to a regular CRT screen
right?
521
00:29:28,666 --> 00:29:30,268
When you went into like an office
522
00:29:30,268 --> 00:29:34,272
or a classroom and the
the portable has the screen within it.
523
00:29:34,372 --> 00:29:36,374
Yeah, but that's the main thing
that they thought of.
524
00:29:36,374 --> 00:29:36,841
Yeah.
525
00:29:36,841 --> 00:29:41,045
Remote learning already by Kenya.
526
00:29:41,112 --> 00:29:44,048
If only they knew.
527
00:29:44,048 --> 00:29:48,486
If only they knew what 2021 would bring.
528
00:29:48,553 --> 00:29:51,689
And then the second is classroom,
which is the version of the computer
529
00:29:51,689 --> 00:29:55,393
with the CRT screen that would be
in the classroom for everyone to use.
530
00:29:55,493 --> 00:29:57,295
And then third was school wide.
531
00:29:57,295 --> 00:30:01,266
This would be a network
which could share data, could be sectioned
532
00:30:01,266 --> 00:30:04,369
off into different classroom groups
and would include printers.
533
00:30:04,369 --> 00:30:07,372
So basically sort of
what a school would have
534
00:30:07,472 --> 00:30:12,510
would have now, like a network of
computers with printers and
535
00:30:12,577 --> 00:30:13,211
to me this
536
00:30:13,211 --> 00:30:17,081
is exciting, but it also like
feels like the same on one.
537
00:30:17,215 --> 00:30:20,952
On the one hand, dreams and goals
and the other rhetoric
538
00:30:21,019 --> 00:30:23,521
which we've been hearing
about computers in schools
539
00:30:23,521 --> 00:30:27,926
ever since I was thinking about
when I was entering high school.
540
00:30:27,926 --> 00:30:31,062
So year seven, we had we had laptops,
we had to have laptops.
541
00:30:31,062 --> 00:30:33,464
I remember that it was like a big expense,
542
00:30:33,464 --> 00:30:37,001
but it was laptops
with with floppy drives.
543
00:30:37,068 --> 00:30:39,437
So I remember sharing around
544
00:30:39,437 --> 00:30:42,240
DOS games on, on floppy disks.
545
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,343
Like I can just manage to queue like Well
546
00:30:45,343 --> 00:30:48,646
I could dangerous Millie with her flash.
547
00:30:48,646 --> 00:30:52,317
Yeah. Yeah
548
00:30:52,383 --> 00:30:53,218
it's exact. Yeah.
549
00:30:53,218 --> 00:30:56,354
And you know we would save things
to floppy and, and stuff
550
00:30:56,354 --> 00:31:00,592
but yeah
man I love dangerous Dave That was my job
551
00:31:00,692 --> 00:31:02,427
that I,
552
00:31:02,427 --> 00:31:05,463
Yeah, I think like by the time
I was leaving school
553
00:31:05,496 --> 00:31:08,967
so six years later
554
00:31:09,033 --> 00:31:12,136
they'd started putting in these
smart whiteboards.
555
00:31:12,136 --> 00:31:14,138
I remember the hype around it.
556
00:31:14,138 --> 00:31:15,840
They were really expensive
557
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,711
that this was going to change the way
students learn, blah, blah, blah.
558
00:31:19,777 --> 00:31:23,014
It, it really I think it just amounted
to being able to print
559
00:31:23,214 --> 00:31:26,618
what you drew on the board and be like
project and save it or something.
560
00:31:26,618 --> 00:31:27,452
I don't know.
561
00:31:27,452 --> 00:31:30,755
People didn't
really use them in the smart capacity
562
00:31:30,755 --> 00:31:33,091
and I feel like
they just broke all the time.
563
00:31:33,091 --> 00:31:35,994
And to be honest, they scared me.
564
00:31:35,994 --> 00:31:40,598
Yeah, I mean, they're still around like
and the latency on those things
565
00:31:40,665 --> 00:31:46,204
was so bad and still is not great.
566
00:31:46,271 --> 00:31:49,440
But yeah,
I mean, I'm, I, I work in online education
567
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,778
and a lot of technologically
advanced universities
568
00:31:53,912 --> 00:31:57,982
now have these, like smart boards
that are connected to remote learning.
569
00:31:57,982 --> 00:32:00,985
So like you have a camera
attached to your whiteboard
570
00:32:01,019 --> 00:32:05,790
that records the teacher in the classroom
and it feeds in live whiteboard
571
00:32:05,790 --> 00:32:10,295
activity to your connected devices
around the world.
572
00:32:10,361 --> 00:32:13,264
So like, for example,
if you tap into teams,
573
00:32:13,264 --> 00:32:16,935
then you can see what is being drawn live
on the whiteboard, like on your screen,
574
00:32:16,935 --> 00:32:21,205
on your computer, I guess physical
or a physical whiteboard in a room.
575
00:32:21,205 --> 00:32:21,539
Yeah.
576
00:32:21,539 --> 00:32:25,743
So the smart whiteboards
are connected to teams so that like
577
00:32:25,743 --> 00:32:30,048
any other musical whiteboard in the room,
someone's like manually drawing on.
578
00:32:30,048 --> 00:32:33,318
And then a version of that goes into teams
on the computer.
579
00:32:33,318 --> 00:32:37,755
Yeah, yeah,
like stuff like that. But it's just
580
00:32:37,855 --> 00:32:40,258
the latency is bad and
581
00:32:40,258 --> 00:32:44,128
it's not really
there's just constant alterations
582
00:32:44,128 --> 00:32:49,467
around education and tech and some of
the stuff that comes out is quite faddish
583
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,171
when really just the best way to teach
and learn is in person.
584
00:32:53,171 --> 00:32:57,475
And I mean, of course I'm, I'm
all for trying to make engagement better
585
00:32:57,475 --> 00:33:02,580
because learning is great and,
and it's good for accessibility as well.
586
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:03,715
Yeah. Yeah.
587
00:33:03,715 --> 00:33:05,783
Of course from the fact
that like anyone around
588
00:33:05,783 --> 00:33:09,721
the world
can get a degree from X, Y and Z, but
589
00:33:09,787 --> 00:33:13,691
yeah, I mean, I think just like
what's great about screens is anonymity.
590
00:33:13,691 --> 00:33:19,397
And when there's projects
that try and go against that,
591
00:33:19,497 --> 00:33:24,202
it's just, it just seems weird to me,
like, why are we trade?
592
00:33:24,202 --> 00:33:29,040
Why are we trying to take that away
from its inherent appeal?
593
00:33:29,107 --> 00:33:31,943
Because I think there's
still ways of learning
594
00:33:32,043 --> 00:33:35,013
as like an explorer as like a,
595
00:33:35,113 --> 00:33:40,284
you know, anonymous being on the Internet
and like lurking and stuff like that.
596
00:33:40,284 --> 00:33:43,488
Like why does it have to be so
597
00:33:43,588 --> 00:33:44,822
hyper connected?
598
00:33:44,822 --> 00:33:48,026
And we're being asked to, like, open
599
00:33:48,026 --> 00:33:51,429
our video cameras when we go on meetings
all the time.
600
00:33:51,429 --> 00:33:54,165
Like, why is that such a thing?
601
00:33:54,165 --> 00:33:59,637
I mean, I guess we all know why,
but it's just a bit weird to me.
602
00:33:59,704 --> 00:34:01,472
It's also
603
00:34:01,472 --> 00:34:06,177
the thing that came up here for me is that
604
00:34:06,244 --> 00:34:08,646
you said it's very faddish
605
00:34:08,646 --> 00:34:13,351
and it must be hard,
I guess, with schools or corporations
606
00:34:13,351 --> 00:34:17,388
or big businesses or whatever to
they have to commit to something.
607
00:34:17,488 --> 00:34:18,890
Yeah. To a for technology.
608
00:34:18,890 --> 00:34:20,558
And they always want to be ahead,
particularly schools
609
00:34:20,558 --> 00:34:23,428
want to be like ahead of the curve
a little bit. Yeah.
610
00:34:23,428 --> 00:34:27,765
So they have to kind of hedge their
bets on like what are they going to add?
611
00:34:27,965 --> 00:34:30,068
Are they going to buy like
612
00:34:30,134 --> 00:34:34,505
200 smart wires?
613
00:34:34,572 --> 00:34:37,542
Right. And there's like no one, obviously.
614
00:34:37,542 --> 00:34:38,042
Yeah.
615
00:34:38,042 --> 00:34:41,846
And there's no one that's like been hired
to to do that research.
616
00:34:41,846 --> 00:34:44,015
Like, you basically just get
617
00:34:44,015 --> 00:34:46,951
principals and then teachers
and then the teachers
618
00:34:46,951 --> 00:34:48,152
will probably come to the principal
619
00:34:48,152 --> 00:34:52,256
and be like, Hey, like we might need
this type of thing in our lab.
620
00:34:52,256 --> 00:34:55,827
That would be good, but you don't really
have anyone there That's like
621
00:34:55,893 --> 00:35:00,264
trying to optimize learning in general.
622
00:35:00,331 --> 00:35:02,700
Yeah, I mean, I guess that's what
like she's like
623
00:35:02,700 --> 00:35:05,670
government agencies,
624
00:35:05,770 --> 00:35:06,270
right?
625
00:35:06,270 --> 00:35:10,942
Tasked with working the best thing,
But that's such a slow process.
626
00:35:10,942 --> 00:35:12,610
Yeah. Yeah. So.
627
00:35:12,610 --> 00:35:13,111
Oh, my God.
628
00:35:13,111 --> 00:35:18,116
Just imagine
the bureaucracy involved in that.
629
00:35:18,182 --> 00:35:20,051
So speaking of.
630
00:35:20,051 --> 00:35:24,122
Yeah, I'm like, I'm like some of
the other countries we mentioned earlier,
631
00:35:24,122 --> 00:35:29,293
this project did die in the development
stage at the National Computer Education
632
00:35:29,293 --> 00:35:33,131
Project, had had three years of funding,
but then it just wasn't renewed,
633
00:35:33,231 --> 00:35:36,934
not because of any big thing or scandal,
but probably just because of like
634
00:35:37,001 --> 00:35:41,739
budget cuts or electoral priorities
of the government. And
635
00:35:41,806 --> 00:35:42,273
I think it
636
00:35:42,273 --> 00:35:46,410
could have been something quite exciting
that sort of push to have
637
00:35:46,477 --> 00:35:50,448
a personal portable version
particularly is is very interesting.
638
00:35:50,548 --> 00:35:52,950
But as Tatton points out, this
639
00:35:52,950 --> 00:35:55,686
this report was being finalized in 1985.
640
00:35:55,686 --> 00:35:58,689
And as we know from the Calico
Adam episode
641
00:35:58,823 --> 00:36:03,361
that coincides with the home
computer crash, a slump of of 1985.
642
00:36:03,361 --> 00:36:08,733
And, you know, it was in this moment
that that there was a consolidation
643
00:36:08,733 --> 00:36:11,903
of the market, which led to a lot
of the smaller companies
644
00:36:11,903 --> 00:36:16,073
closing and pushed through the later
dominance of Apple in the PC.
645
00:36:16,140 --> 00:36:19,143
So even if the AEC had gone
into production,
646
00:36:19,310 --> 00:36:23,214
it would have already by that point
been technologically surpassed
647
00:36:23,214 --> 00:36:27,185
and probably just demolished
by these big players.
648
00:36:27,251 --> 00:36:30,288
And it feels like that space
to create a national government
649
00:36:30,288 --> 00:36:34,492
led computer program
had sort of passed by by that point.
650
00:36:34,492 --> 00:36:35,860
And there's this project
651
00:36:35,860 --> 00:36:39,764
was just really just came
a little bit too late in the game.
652
00:36:39,864 --> 00:36:41,232
Yeah.
653
00:36:41,299 --> 00:36:44,502
So moving into part two,
654
00:36:44,569 --> 00:36:49,507
a a computer that also got caught up
in this industry consolidation
655
00:36:49,507 --> 00:36:54,612
was the micro bee, which was known
as Australia's own computer.
656
00:36:54,679 --> 00:36:57,248
This microcomputer was made and designed
657
00:36:57,248 --> 00:37:00,585
in Australia
and became a major player in the education
658
00:37:00,585 --> 00:37:04,522
market in Australian schools
and internationally as well.
659
00:37:04,622 --> 00:37:06,624
Go Australia. Woo!
660
00:37:06,624 --> 00:37:09,894
The micro bee began its life
661
00:37:09,894 --> 00:37:14,398
in 1982
as a kit computer designed by Owen Hill
662
00:37:14,398 --> 00:37:18,803
and Matthew Starr
from a company called Applied Technology.
663
00:37:18,903 --> 00:37:22,573
So before this,
applied technology had been mostly,
664
00:37:22,573 --> 00:37:27,111
I think, like importing and selling
computer and tech parts,
665
00:37:27,211 --> 00:37:30,781
But because they had all of these
these parts, these bits,
666
00:37:30,848 --> 00:37:35,319
it seemed like a natural progression
to move into kit computers,
667
00:37:35,319 --> 00:37:39,323
which is where you can have a bag of bits
and instructions
668
00:37:39,323 --> 00:37:41,492
and you learn to make a computer yourself.
669
00:37:41,492 --> 00:37:44,428
In my head, it's like a Lego set.
670
00:37:44,428 --> 00:37:45,062
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
671
00:37:45,062 --> 00:37:48,666
I was about to say the same thing,
but I will confess.
672
00:37:48,666 --> 00:37:52,336
Yeah, I used to teach
like coding little workshops
673
00:37:52,336 --> 00:37:55,339
for like six year olds and me.
674
00:37:55,473 --> 00:37:58,376
And one of the best tasks
675
00:37:58,376 --> 00:38:01,379
was them trying to build a little robot.
676
00:38:01,579 --> 00:38:04,315
And it came as like a like
it was like a Lego initiative.
677
00:38:04,315 --> 00:38:06,117
So I forgot what the name was.
678
00:38:06,117 --> 00:38:08,986
But basically you build
your own like Lego board
679
00:38:08,986 --> 00:38:11,989
and then there's like a little sensor
in there and a battery,
680
00:38:12,189 --> 00:38:14,659
and then you can code what
that robot does.
681
00:38:14,659 --> 00:38:19,230
So it can kind of like it
can like drive itself to a certain point.
682
00:38:19,230 --> 00:38:21,332
And then after like 6 seconds
it can move, right?
683
00:38:21,332 --> 00:38:25,002
But you have to code all of those steps
in this like special piece of software.
684
00:38:25,169 --> 00:38:28,873
And it's very easy to use
and it's really fun and it's got like,
685
00:38:28,939 --> 00:38:29,940
I forgot what it was.
686
00:38:29,940 --> 00:38:31,142
It was like a character.
687
00:38:31,142 --> 00:38:33,511
It was like
almost like a little Wall-E guy.
688
00:38:33,511 --> 00:38:36,147
Yeah.
So that reminds me of that a little bit.
689
00:38:36,147 --> 00:38:37,148
I was just invited.
690
00:38:37,148 --> 00:38:41,952
I did Lego Robotics in high school,
which was probably a
691
00:38:42,019 --> 00:38:44,355
like an earlier version of what this is.
692
00:38:44,355 --> 00:38:48,326
And we yeah,
we learned to like we made robots
693
00:38:48,326 --> 00:38:52,263
and then let to program them
in like specific Lego programing.
694
00:38:52,330 --> 00:38:55,366
And then we entered,
we had little groups and we entered
695
00:38:55,366 --> 00:38:59,770
a Lego robotics competition
and they had different sections.
696
00:38:59,870 --> 00:39:01,739
I think there were three,
and I only remember
697
00:39:01,739 --> 00:39:06,010
one of them was like
you playing soccer or something.
698
00:39:06,077 --> 00:39:07,078
That one was.
699
00:39:07,078 --> 00:39:11,549
Was your program
the Robot to dance to a song?
700
00:39:11,615 --> 00:39:17,855
And me and my friends, we we made a robot
that danced to Achy Breaky Heart.
701
00:39:17,922 --> 00:39:20,825
You know, that's like, Oh, my.
702
00:39:20,825 --> 00:39:21,258
Oh, right.
703
00:39:21,258 --> 00:39:22,526
Yeah.
704
00:39:22,526 --> 00:39:27,465
Of Pew just did a lot of like, oh 510.
705
00:39:27,531 --> 00:39:29,433
Oh, I love it.
706
00:39:29,433 --> 00:39:29,900
I love that.
707
00:39:29,900 --> 00:39:34,038
I feel like I would
have been very into Joshua.
708
00:39:34,138 --> 00:39:35,306
Researching this made
709
00:39:35,306 --> 00:39:38,442
me, made me wish that quite nostalgic.
710
00:39:38,442 --> 00:39:41,379
I had gotten into computers,
think I was a little too late,
711
00:39:41,379 --> 00:39:45,216
I was too late for it,
but too old for the party.
712
00:39:45,282 --> 00:39:47,985
I was too young to young.
713
00:39:47,985 --> 00:39:49,820
Yeah, right
714
00:39:49,820 --> 00:39:51,489
to too young.
715
00:39:51,489 --> 00:39:54,258
To bon bon to bon to late.
716
00:39:54,258 --> 00:39:55,259
Yeah.
717
00:39:55,259 --> 00:39:58,562
But what I loved
about the development of the micro bee
718
00:39:58,596 --> 00:40:01,599
was that they gave it a code name
when they were
719
00:40:01,766 --> 00:40:05,169
working out what it would be,
and the codename was Project Granny Smith.
720
00:40:05,236 --> 00:40:08,472
And the Granny Smith
is an Australian apple.
721
00:40:08,572 --> 00:40:09,073
Oh, really?
722
00:40:09,073 --> 00:40:10,808
I didn't know it was Australian.
I love it.
723
00:40:10,808 --> 00:40:15,846
Gregg Yeah, it was created in this,
but it's like an Australian apple.
724
00:40:15,913 --> 00:40:19,450
I think that's cute and smart.
725
00:40:19,550 --> 00:40:21,952
This computer, which ended up being named
726
00:40:21,952 --> 00:40:25,990
the Micro Bee, was the first commercial
personal computer
727
00:40:25,990 --> 00:40:31,962
manufactured and designed in Australia,
was made in Gosford, New South Wales.
728
00:40:32,029 --> 00:40:36,133
They sold for $399.
729
00:40:36,133 --> 00:40:39,136
I did some inflation math
730
00:40:39,236 --> 00:40:43,741
and I think that's around 1,000 USD today.
731
00:40:43,974 --> 00:40:47,578
Okay, they should teach inflation
maths at school.
732
00:40:47,578 --> 00:40:49,680
It should be part of the curriculum.
733
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:55,019
Yeah, I did say a tick tock,
but so in the pandemic
734
00:40:55,019 --> 00:40:59,223
I was living with with some friends
and we used to watch a lot of old films.
735
00:40:59,223 --> 00:41:05,296
And one of my friends Mandy
was very into looking up the inflation.
736
00:41:05,396 --> 00:41:06,530
I found it Tick Tock the other day
737
00:41:06,530 --> 00:41:10,201
that was referencing this,
and I said it to her and then she
738
00:41:10,267 --> 00:41:13,170
reminded me that $7 in
739
00:41:13,170 --> 00:41:16,407
the thirties
was is like $150 today or something.
740
00:41:16,574 --> 00:41:18,075
Yeah.
741
00:41:18,075 --> 00:41:21,011
Also I just realized
I said math instead of maths, right.
742
00:41:21,011 --> 00:41:22,313
Oh yeah.
743
00:41:22,313 --> 00:41:28,185
So it's an American, an inflation
maths America.
744
00:41:28,285 --> 00:41:31,322
I did just add
the American keyboard to my forehead
745
00:41:31,322 --> 00:41:35,826
because I was sick of having to vote,
which was so sad.
746
00:41:36,060 --> 00:41:38,562
I said, Yeah, the Minister
747
00:41:38,629 --> 00:41:39,730
of. So
748
00:41:39,730 --> 00:41:43,167
they launched the kits along with a 32
page lift
749
00:41:43,167 --> 00:41:47,838
out in your computer
magazine in February 1982.
750
00:41:47,938 --> 00:41:49,139
I think it was because
751
00:41:49,139 --> 00:41:52,543
because one of them was like
working for this magazine or something.
752
00:41:52,643 --> 00:41:56,146
They they managed to get the space,
the pages in the magazine
753
00:41:56,146 --> 00:41:58,849
before they even had a name
for the computer.
754
00:41:58,849 --> 00:42:03,454
And they ended up on B and then Micro
because they were like, We can't copy.
755
00:42:03,521 --> 00:42:06,524
And with the idea
that the software would be called Honey
756
00:42:06,757 --> 00:42:10,794
and the eventual network would be
the Hive, it was like this whole thing.
757
00:42:10,861 --> 00:42:16,033
I found a quote in an article
as we visited school classrooms and found
758
00:42:16,033 --> 00:42:22,473
students didn't like calling computers
z x 88 and they personalized apples.
759
00:42:22,473 --> 00:42:25,376
One was called Fred, Mr. Hill says.
760
00:42:25,376 --> 00:42:28,212
We decided it should be friendly
and non-threatening.
761
00:42:28,212 --> 00:42:32,016
So my microwave grew to be so cute.
762
00:42:32,082 --> 00:42:35,419
I also saw a comment on a YouTube video
that was saying that like the Micro Bee
763
00:42:35,452 --> 00:42:39,223
had an orange and black screen and apples
had green and black screen.
764
00:42:39,223 --> 00:42:44,128
I said, Oh, because like orange and black
was like the B a B, I guess. Yes.
765
00:42:44,161 --> 00:42:44,461
Color.
766
00:42:44,461 --> 00:42:48,232
Yeah, I actually I checked out the logo
and it's interesting
767
00:42:48,232 --> 00:42:52,536
because they use the same kind
of like Apple old school, like Apple font.
768
00:42:52,603 --> 00:42:58,542
You know the Sarah thing though
like stretched out vertically, long serif,
769
00:42:58,642 --> 00:43:01,145
it's like slightly different, It's
a little bit bolder,
770
00:43:01,145 --> 00:43:05,616
but you can definitely see that they were
like sort of in competition with them.
771
00:43:05,616 --> 00:43:07,718
Maybe just looking at her.
772
00:43:07,718 --> 00:43:10,554
Yeah, the font. Yeah.
773
00:43:10,554 --> 00:43:13,290
So, so Own Hill has said
there was an interview with him,
774
00:43:13,290 --> 00:43:15,159
so I'll reference this a little bit.
775
00:43:15,159 --> 00:43:18,028
He said that they thought
that they would take a year
776
00:43:18,028 --> 00:43:22,032
to sell a thousand kits, but they ended up
selling them all within two months
777
00:43:22,099 --> 00:43:26,570
and by the end of the year they were doing
more than a thousand a month. Wow.
778
00:43:26,570 --> 00:43:30,007
By April, they had been approached
by the New South Wales Department
779
00:43:30,007 --> 00:43:34,211
of Education as part of the New South
Wales Schools computer contract.
780
00:43:34,278 --> 00:43:37,414
The Government
going to buy two and a half thousand
781
00:43:37,448 --> 00:43:41,118
microbeads to go into schools,
but they would need them to be pre-built,
782
00:43:41,151 --> 00:43:44,588
not the kit form that it was currently in.
783
00:43:44,655 --> 00:43:47,191
So applied technology
784
00:43:47,191 --> 00:43:51,362
began developing a prebuilt model
with, it seems, also some input
785
00:43:51,629 --> 00:43:55,132
from the government
of what would be required by them.
786
00:43:55,232 --> 00:44:00,704
The fully assembled Micro B personal
computer was released in July 1982.
787
00:44:00,704 --> 00:44:03,040
Is this like month just months apart?
788
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:03,607
Each of these?
789
00:44:03,607 --> 00:44:06,010
Yeah, which is crazy to me. Yeah.
790
00:44:06,010 --> 00:44:09,747
And this now had an injection
molded plastic case
791
00:44:09,813 --> 00:44:12,650
and the logo for the micro is of large
792
00:44:12,650 --> 00:44:16,186
graphic B so it was also kind of cute,
which was good for schools.
793
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:17,321
It's got to be cute.
794
00:44:17,321 --> 00:44:20,524
Got to be cute
to sell. It's got to be cute.
795
00:44:20,591 --> 00:44:24,194
The following year, they
were also on their preferred provider list
796
00:44:24,194 --> 00:44:28,899
for Western Australia and Queensland
and later South Australia and Victoria.
797
00:44:28,966 --> 00:44:33,003
In 1983 they released color and disk
based versions
798
00:44:33,003 --> 00:44:36,974
and in 1985
they released a premium model and fun.
799
00:44:37,141 --> 00:44:40,144
This included
a video text terminal adapter which meant
800
00:44:40,144 --> 00:44:44,648
that you could access the new via
tell video text network from telecom,
801
00:44:44,715 --> 00:44:47,851
and that could also be used
to connect all the schools.
802
00:44:47,851 --> 00:44:52,256
And in that interview,
O'Neil said it was like email
803
00:44:52,256 --> 00:44:56,960
and I can't quite tell
if he's referring to the video text
804
00:44:57,061 --> 00:44:59,163
network or if it's like a something else.
805
00:44:59,163 --> 00:45:03,500
But yeah, yeah,
that's so interesting that like so while
806
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,904
universities at the time were connected
via like PBS
807
00:45:07,071 --> 00:45:12,509
schools would have been connected
via video text, things like the,
808
00:45:12,576 --> 00:45:16,480
the, the school system, particularly
this primary school
809
00:45:16,547 --> 00:45:19,249
market was always like lagging behind
810
00:45:19,249 --> 00:45:22,252
via what was actually happening
because it's
811
00:45:22,319 --> 00:45:26,123
because it would because universities is
where computers are tech.
812
00:45:26,290 --> 00:45:27,958
So yeah, yeah.
813
00:45:27,958 --> 00:45:31,328
Used at first yeah.
814
00:45:31,395 --> 00:45:33,430
Original machines were ROM based.
815
00:45:33,430 --> 00:45:35,699
They didn't have disk drives attached.
816
00:45:35,699 --> 00:45:39,670
They had cassette based program loading,
which we, we talked
817
00:45:39,670 --> 00:45:44,241
about a little bit in the Catholic
ah Atom episode I think.
818
00:45:44,341 --> 00:45:46,376
And it later
819
00:45:46,443 --> 00:45:50,414
also in the doomsday I think No, no, no.
820
00:45:50,447 --> 00:45:52,750
Yeah that was always good.
821
00:45:52,750 --> 00:45:56,220
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
822
00:45:56,286 --> 00:45:57,688
Later you could,
823
00:45:57,688 --> 00:46:01,225
you could sort of upgrade your computer,
your microwave very easily.
824
00:46:01,225 --> 00:46:04,528
You could sort of like switch
in and out things so later
825
00:46:04,528 --> 00:46:08,298
you could upgrade to a disk based machine
that was capable of CPM.
826
00:46:08,398 --> 00:46:12,402
They had a originally
they had a five, five,
827
00:46:12,503 --> 00:46:17,241
five, 12 by 256 pixel resolution,
which was better than other ideas
828
00:46:17,341 --> 00:46:21,011
at the time, like Tandy,
which owned RadioShack in the States
829
00:46:21,011 --> 00:46:25,015
and was becoming bigger,
they kind of saw them as competition.
830
00:46:25,215 --> 00:46:26,483
Yeah, and it was better.
831
00:46:26,483 --> 00:46:33,157
That resolution is better than the Apple
two, which I think was 140 by 192.
832
00:46:33,223 --> 00:46:35,192
Yeah, So that's really good.
833
00:46:35,192 --> 00:46:36,827
Yeah.
834
00:46:36,827 --> 00:46:40,030
A big draw
was that it had battery backed memory
835
00:46:40,130 --> 00:46:44,301
standard RAM backed up by a battery
which meant that if the power
836
00:46:44,301 --> 00:46:47,838
suddenly went off or the computer crashed,
you didn't lose all your work.
837
00:46:47,938 --> 00:46:50,574
That dynamic Ram was what I saw
the companies used
838
00:46:50,574 --> 00:46:54,244
and that copy battery backed up though
it is cheaper.
839
00:46:54,311 --> 00:46:56,847
So so the Apple two
840
00:46:56,847 --> 00:47:00,551
and micro B were the main computers
in schools in Australia,
841
00:47:00,551 --> 00:47:06,123
but micro B was a cheaper alternative
and an Australian machine.
842
00:47:06,190 --> 00:47:10,427
Schools could buy five microbeads
for the cost of one apple.
843
00:47:10,527 --> 00:47:13,630
No, what a bargain.
844
00:47:13,730 --> 00:47:14,665
And they just because
845
00:47:14,665 --> 00:47:18,502
mostly it was produced in the country
do you think?
846
00:47:18,502 --> 00:47:20,037
Yeah, I think so, yeah.
847
00:47:20,037 --> 00:47:23,040
And it was just it's not a big brand.
848
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,108
I mean, everyone knows Apple's a scam.
849
00:47:25,108 --> 00:47:25,742
Yeah.
850
00:47:25,742 --> 00:47:29,913
Overpriced
851
00:47:29,980 --> 00:47:33,116
Microbrew also emphasized
that it was two kids per computer
852
00:47:33,116 --> 00:47:38,088
which encouraged peer learning
so schools needed less and they were also
853
00:47:38,088 --> 00:47:41,758
producing Australian content
relevant to the curriculum.
854
00:47:41,825 --> 00:47:45,996
That thing about PLM with multiple kids
855
00:47:45,996 --> 00:47:49,967
per computer reminds me of common
San Diego stuff where
856
00:47:50,067 --> 00:47:52,669
so much of the part of the it's
857
00:47:52,669 --> 00:47:55,873
like a central part
of the experience of the game was about
858
00:47:55,939 --> 00:47:59,743
playing in a group around one computer
because it was
859
00:47:59,810 --> 00:48:03,947
a school of software to begin with.
860
00:48:04,047 --> 00:48:09,720
And so I guess conversations
around conservation also considering
861
00:48:09,786 --> 00:48:13,323
that like social experience
of using a computer.
862
00:48:13,390 --> 00:48:14,491
Yeah.
863
00:48:14,491 --> 00:48:18,128
So Owen Hill says that
that this was a major factor
864
00:48:18,128 --> 00:48:21,732
in standing out against Apple,
865
00:48:21,732 --> 00:48:24,735
the producing Australian content
866
00:48:24,801 --> 00:48:28,338
micro be understood
the cultural nuances of their markets
867
00:48:28,338 --> 00:48:34,278
better than Apple later micro B
we get into the Swedish school market
868
00:48:34,378 --> 00:48:37,314
they won the contract over Apple
specifically
869
00:48:37,314 --> 00:48:41,218
with the drawcard of they were producing
culturally appropriate keyboards
870
00:48:41,285 --> 00:48:44,922
and this helped when they followed Apple
into the Russian market too.
871
00:48:44,922 --> 00:48:48,825
Apple just had the normal quality
keyboard, but Mike Kirby
872
00:48:48,926 --> 00:48:52,195
created a language
specific keyboard for Russian
873
00:48:52,262 --> 00:48:54,331
and that helped them gain
more market percentage.
874
00:48:54,331 --> 00:48:59,236
And in Russia while so my Kirby
was exporting to Sweden and Russia
875
00:48:59,403 --> 00:49:05,609
just because they had some customs
keyboards. Wow.
876
00:49:05,676 --> 00:49:11,348
And I think it's interesting, this idea
of computers really tied to local markets.
877
00:49:11,415 --> 00:49:17,154
Yeah, I we don't really see that
so much anymore other than some language
878
00:49:17,154 --> 00:49:21,425
changes on the screen
and I guess keyboard differences.
879
00:49:21,425 --> 00:49:24,161
But this one, I don't know.
880
00:49:24,161 --> 00:49:28,432
It just it feels well, it's
about the keyboard, but it's also like it
881
00:49:28,532 --> 00:49:32,002
it seemed like it wanted
to kind of preserve like part
882
00:49:32,002 --> 00:49:35,172
of Australian culture
and like the curriculum
883
00:49:35,172 --> 00:49:39,242
and the different, like weird words
that were being used, you know?
884
00:49:39,242 --> 00:49:42,546
So it was like a part of the software
as well as much as it was
885
00:49:42,546 --> 00:49:43,246
part of the hardware.
886
00:49:43,246 --> 00:49:48,852
Like, you know, it's about understanding
the society that the kids are going into.
887
00:49:48,986 --> 00:49:49,486
Yeah, right.
888
00:49:49,486 --> 00:49:54,791
And the economic language was like, yeah,
but to be like, well,
889
00:49:54,791 --> 00:49:58,795
what does this
how does this computer sit within society?
890
00:49:58,795 --> 00:49:59,896
How is it used?
891
00:49:59,896 --> 00:50:04,267
There was an article called
Australian Computers and Swedish Schools,
892
00:50:04,267 --> 00:50:08,005
which I don't know what it's from,
but it was shown
893
00:50:08,005 --> 00:50:11,341
as an image in a video about my Kirby.
894
00:50:11,408 --> 00:50:16,213
So I, I don't know
if it's from the eighties,
895
00:50:16,279 --> 00:50:18,548
but it, the microbe won the contract
896
00:50:18,548 --> 00:50:23,053
in the face of stiff competition
such as the Scandinavian produce Luxo
897
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:27,824
and the internationally known and accepted
BBC Apple and Apricot Computer Systems.
898
00:50:27,991 --> 00:50:30,460
Wait, I'm just going to take a aside.
899
00:50:30,460 --> 00:50:33,597
I had not heard of an apricot mini there.
900
00:50:33,597 --> 00:50:36,033
I looked it up. It's a British computer.
901
00:50:36,033 --> 00:50:37,034
They went out of business.
902
00:50:37,034 --> 00:50:40,037
But what I found online was a website
903
00:50:40,070 --> 00:50:45,108
that's a pitch
somebody is pitching to revive the
904
00:50:45,108 --> 00:50:49,012
OR to take that brand name
and start a started again.
905
00:50:49,112 --> 00:50:53,417
I would want that
if it like yeah let's look into that.
906
00:50:53,517 --> 00:50:57,087
So the quote continues
as one might imagine, this achievement
907
00:50:57,087 --> 00:51:00,791
in an international marketplace
is of considerable proportions.
908
00:51:00,857 --> 00:51:05,162
Perhaps local misconceptions that
Australian high technology is of dubious
909
00:51:05,162 --> 00:51:09,299
quality and quantity may be refuted
in the light of such breakthroughs.
910
00:51:09,332 --> 00:51:12,602
Just like third.
911
00:51:12,669 --> 00:51:14,004
But despite
912
00:51:14,004 --> 00:51:17,140
that, Owen Hill said that
there was actually
913
00:51:17,140 --> 00:51:21,411
a real sense of ownership,
Australian ownership around the micro bee.
914
00:51:21,511 --> 00:51:26,149
I guess because they were Australian made,
but also because they were largely
915
00:51:26,249 --> 00:51:28,018
the handmade in kit form
916
00:51:28,018 --> 00:51:31,488
in the early nineties, the people had like
a physical connection with it
917
00:51:31,688 --> 00:51:36,226
and then also use during early childhood
with culturally specific software.
918
00:51:36,226 --> 00:51:39,229
So it was very relatable.
919
00:51:39,229 --> 00:51:43,467
And also I think like my
I have a memory of like the nineties
920
00:51:43,533 --> 00:51:46,303
that like buying
921
00:51:46,303 --> 00:51:49,473
Australian made
there was an Australian made campaign
922
00:51:49,506 --> 00:51:55,712
that was like a special sticker that
we had like a logo with a kangaroo on it.
923
00:51:55,779 --> 00:51:59,549
So Australian made and it was
that there were ads on the TV like buy
924
00:51:59,549 --> 00:52:00,350
these Australian made things.
925
00:52:00,350 --> 00:52:03,320
So you know there was this of incentive.
926
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:07,257
Yeah yeah. And the market
927
00:52:07,324 --> 00:52:10,527
so micro be had this niche market
with primary schools
928
00:52:10,594 --> 00:52:13,296
though they were also in secondary schools
and offices
929
00:52:13,296 --> 00:52:17,067
and some other markets
like medical and medical technology
930
00:52:17,067 --> 00:52:21,738
company used it to make blood analysis
machines like okay there it was.
931
00:52:21,738 --> 00:52:27,644
But you know IVF was moving
into the secondary school market
932
00:52:27,644 --> 00:52:32,482
with business machines and IBM clones
933
00:52:32,482 --> 00:52:35,485
sort of were becoming a thing.
934
00:52:35,619 --> 00:52:37,154
Unfortunately,
935
00:52:37,154 --> 00:52:40,157
you know, due to having so much demand
in the moment.
936
00:52:40,157 --> 00:52:43,894
Micro Bee and Applied Technology
weren't able to focus on diversifying
937
00:52:43,894 --> 00:52:45,929
or establishing new business models
938
00:52:45,929 --> 00:52:49,266
that would allow them to grow
from the small factory in Gosford.
939
00:52:49,466 --> 00:52:52,636
They were just trying to fulfill
the orders that were coming in.
940
00:52:52,736 --> 00:52:56,540
Yeah, when the IBM clones flooded
the market later
941
00:52:56,540 --> 00:53:00,277
in the eighties, Applied Technology
looked at importing Taiwanese
942
00:53:00,277 --> 00:53:05,348
IBM clones under the micro bee name
and they tried to develop a new computer
943
00:53:05,348 --> 00:53:09,052
called the Matilda,
which is another very Australian name,
944
00:53:09,152 --> 00:53:12,422
which would be both micro
Bee and IBM compatible.
945
00:53:12,422 --> 00:53:15,859
But only 200 went into production before.
946
00:53:15,859 --> 00:53:20,497
The company folded
and it finally closed and in 1992
947
00:53:20,564 --> 00:53:22,165
they had sold more than
948
00:53:22,165 --> 00:53:26,136
70,000 microbeads
to over 3000 Australian schools.
949
00:53:26,203 --> 00:53:31,708
It was this very specific generation
of school kids that that experience this.
950
00:53:31,775 --> 00:53:34,044
But that's still a lot.
951
00:53:34,044 --> 00:53:35,312
Yeah, yeah.
952
00:53:35,312 --> 00:53:37,581
And I wonder how that changed sort of.
953
00:53:37,581 --> 00:53:41,785
There was that generation's perception
of computers and and identity
954
00:53:41,785 --> 00:53:46,189
and sure the possibilities of
955
00:53:46,289 --> 00:53:49,859
like a career in tech
or things like that, you know,
956
00:53:49,926 --> 00:53:53,063
because you've built it yourself
or the way everything.
957
00:53:53,063 --> 00:53:54,931
Yeah yeah.
958
00:53:54,931 --> 00:53:59,569
Generations after that
we're all just using apple trees and PCs.
959
00:53:59,669 --> 00:54:02,038
The company was sort of relaunched
960
00:54:02,038 --> 00:54:05,942
in 2012 by a former employee.
961
00:54:06,009 --> 00:54:10,080
I think they had like 120 limited edition
kit computers,
962
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:13,083
which man, I wish
I could have gotten one of them, but
963
00:54:13,083 --> 00:54:19,256
they did that because I think he had found
a storage storage locker or something
964
00:54:19,322 --> 00:54:25,462
and they had 120 cases of the
I think the premium plus model in storage.
965
00:54:25,462 --> 00:54:28,531
And so they they like supplied
like all the other parts new
966
00:54:28,531 --> 00:54:31,868
and then the vintage case
967
00:54:31,935 --> 00:54:34,170
and it looked like
I watched some interviews look like
968
00:54:34,170 --> 00:54:38,441
maybe they have some other cases
and I think maybe from the Matilda
969
00:54:38,441 --> 00:54:41,311
or from the sort of later models
that never went into production
970
00:54:41,311 --> 00:54:43,880
and that they're
thinking of doing it again.
971
00:54:43,980 --> 00:54:44,581
But Yeah.
972
00:54:44,581 --> 00:54:48,551
So it's running again, but it's not.
973
00:54:48,618 --> 00:54:50,020
Yeah, it's not the same.
974
00:54:50,020 --> 00:54:56,026
But yeah, because it would still be on
like kind of old hardware.
975
00:54:56,126 --> 00:54:58,028
Yeah. Right. Like it. Yeah.
976
00:54:58,028 --> 00:55:01,831
I don't know if that's like the most
attractive to kids that are used I think.
977
00:55:01,831 --> 00:55:05,769
And it's not for kids,
it's for, it's for us.
978
00:55:05,835 --> 00:55:08,271
Oh, right, right.
979
00:55:08,271 --> 00:55:08,672
Yeah.
980
00:55:08,672 --> 00:55:11,641
The nerves.
981
00:55:11,641 --> 00:55:13,043
Yeah.
982
00:55:13,043 --> 00:55:14,711
No, that's cool. But, um.
983
00:55:14,711 --> 00:55:18,548
Yeah, it's really interesting
just thinking about that
984
00:55:18,548 --> 00:55:22,686
process from, like,
what companies kind of took over.
985
00:55:22,686 --> 00:55:26,690
It's, it's interesting
that how the models made for
986
00:55:26,790 --> 00:55:32,028
business and finance, like IBM,
eventually diversified and like, took over
987
00:55:32,062 --> 00:55:36,032
all of the markets in like,
say, education and leisure
988
00:55:36,032 --> 00:55:38,335
or reproductive labor
like we said earlier.
989
00:55:38,335 --> 00:55:41,071
And yeah, I just, I wonder why that is.
990
00:55:41,071 --> 00:55:46,910
Like, is it just because they had
more money and were able to adapt more or
991
00:55:47,010 --> 00:55:50,013
like it's it's it's
very similar to the story.
992
00:55:50,180 --> 00:55:51,448
Sorry, go ahead.
993
00:55:51,448 --> 00:55:54,150
Oh, since I mean,
I think a lot of it is just that
994
00:55:54,150 --> 00:55:57,854
98 like mid eighties 1985 slump.
995
00:55:57,954 --> 00:55:59,222
That's true.
996
00:55:59,222 --> 00:55:59,389
Yeah.
997
00:55:59,389 --> 00:56:03,059
Before that there were just
all of these little companies and
998
00:56:03,126 --> 00:56:06,930
it was this very new industry
and everybody's so speculative
999
00:56:06,930 --> 00:56:08,431
and everyone's like trying something out.
1000
00:56:08,431 --> 00:56:13,203
And then at a certain point
it's like oversaturated the supply issues,
1001
00:56:13,203 --> 00:56:16,306
like all that stuff happens
and the smaller companies
1002
00:56:16,306 --> 00:56:19,943
drop off and the bigger companies
take over their market share.
1003
00:56:20,043 --> 00:56:20,577
Yeah, yeah.
1004
00:56:20,577 --> 00:56:25,482
And then at that point it becomes
more about them growing as a business
1005
00:56:25,482 --> 00:56:29,853
and maintaining themselves as a business
and diversifying and and things.
1006
00:56:29,853 --> 00:56:32,989
And they just take over everything
1007
00:56:33,223 --> 00:56:37,794
and we lose all of the smaller companies
doing interesting things
1008
00:56:37,861 --> 00:56:40,230
because the market's
just not open for that anymore.
1009
00:56:40,230 --> 00:56:44,801
Yeah, but then it,
then there's also a process
1010
00:56:44,801 --> 00:56:50,173
of like subverting those more homogenous
1011
00:56:50,240 --> 00:56:51,574
technologies as well.
1012
00:56:51,574 --> 00:56:55,445
That then creates
like a new cycle of like customization
1013
00:56:55,445 --> 00:56:58,848
because like it's very similar
to the story of cell phones
1014
00:56:58,848 --> 00:57:03,253
and how at first they were introduced
to businessmen to be more productive
1015
00:57:03,253 --> 00:57:04,320
and efficient from home.
1016
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:06,623
And then it was adopted by housewives.
1017
00:57:06,623 --> 00:57:08,691
So using it for chit chat, which
1018
00:57:08,691 --> 00:57:12,595
then was a revelation for the technology
and kind of changed
1019
00:57:12,595 --> 00:57:16,499
its whole course to cell phones
now actually being more for social uses.
1020
00:57:16,499 --> 00:57:19,335
Of course,
now that filters into work uses.
1021
00:57:19,335 --> 00:57:24,140
But still, you know, there's there's
a similar pattern here where like business
1022
00:57:24,140 --> 00:57:27,677
computers took over education
and now these computers
1023
00:57:27,677 --> 00:57:31,815
are trying to adapt to education
after being adopted
1024
00:57:31,815 --> 00:57:35,685
by that specified establishment
like schools.
1025
00:57:35,685 --> 00:57:40,557
So, yeah,
I can kind of see how like micro be tried
1026
00:57:40,557 --> 00:57:44,761
to reverse that chain of processes.
1027
00:57:44,761 --> 00:57:50,300
And I think in many ways they were ahead
of the game rather than too late to it.
1028
00:57:50,500 --> 00:57:54,804
But it's just that the finance
technologies somehow always take over.
1029
00:57:54,804 --> 00:57:59,342
And again, I think, you know,
we all know why that happens,
1030
00:57:59,342 --> 00:58:05,281
like finance technologies are just taken
more seriously then niche edge computers
1031
00:58:05,281 --> 00:58:09,919
like microbeads, because they
they only have a life span and schools.
1032
00:58:09,919 --> 00:58:16,292
And yeah, part of it is that many people
believe I think also that like
1033
00:58:16,359 --> 00:58:19,229
schools
just there to kind of uphold the economy.
1034
00:58:19,229 --> 00:58:23,399
So why not train kids on machines
that they'll be, you know, working
1035
00:58:23,399 --> 00:58:24,801
and living with for the rest?
1036
00:58:24,801 --> 00:58:29,372
Well, So it's kind of something
really sad, something that that Allen
1037
00:58:29,439 --> 00:58:33,042
and Hill was saying was that
1038
00:58:33,142 --> 00:58:36,112
the then
niche market of the primary schools
1039
00:58:36,112 --> 00:58:40,383
was was niche because it was more
1040
00:58:40,550 --> 00:58:44,287
they were like non-threatening
gaming computers essentially.
1041
00:58:44,287 --> 00:58:47,023
And and that it was more about
getting kids
1042
00:58:47,023 --> 00:58:50,193
excited about computers
and used to like the mechanisms
1043
00:58:50,193 --> 00:58:54,731
of using a computer mouse and keyboard,
you know the screen.
1044
00:58:54,831 --> 00:58:58,501
But then when the reason IBM was in
secondary schools was because secondary
1045
00:58:58,501 --> 00:59:02,438
schools is when students are being trained
to enter the workforce.
1046
00:59:02,505 --> 00:59:05,074
And so they need to know how
1047
00:59:05,074 --> 00:59:09,178
to use business computers
and the things that they're doing,
1048
00:59:09,178 --> 00:59:13,917
which they're learning,
you know, like maths and and stuff
1049
00:59:13,983 --> 00:59:16,686
like that is maybe more
1050
00:59:16,686 --> 00:59:19,155
dismal software
for that on a business computer.
1051
00:59:19,155 --> 00:59:22,792
But yeah, like the idea for kids
this young with
1052
00:59:22,792 --> 00:59:26,863
these computers is more just to have
1053
00:59:26,963 --> 00:59:30,300
be around technology.
1054
00:59:30,366 --> 00:59:35,471
This was so new you know now you know
kids babies with iPads and things and
1055
00:59:35,572 --> 00:59:39,075
and you know everybody's
so used to computers now in their lives
1056
00:59:39,075 --> 00:59:42,979
but at the time this was had to be
it had to be introduced slowly.
1057
00:59:43,079 --> 00:59:43,413
Yeah.
1058
00:59:43,413 --> 00:59:45,815
And this was the way for that to happen.
1059
00:59:45,815 --> 00:59:46,282
Yeah.
1060
00:59:46,282 --> 00:59:52,322
And I guess also building
your own tools is like advanced way
1061
00:59:52,322 --> 00:59:57,994
of like learning and making new sort
of neural connections where you can,
1062
00:59:58,061 --> 01:00:00,930
you know, you're not just like passively
reading books, you're also
1063
01:00:00,930 --> 01:00:04,801
just like literally making the stuff
around you and experimenting
1064
01:00:04,801 --> 01:00:08,871
and trial and error and mistakes happen
and it's a yeah, it's
1065
01:00:08,871 --> 01:00:13,643
a very yeah, just like really cool
and creative way to like, actually learn.
1066
01:00:13,743 --> 01:00:15,578
But yeah, what a great episode.
1067
01:00:15,578 --> 01:00:16,379
Thanks Kamila.
1068
01:00:16,379 --> 01:00:17,547
That was Thank you.
1069
01:00:17,547 --> 01:00:19,582
I was so excited to find this one.
1070
01:00:19,582 --> 01:00:21,918
I hadn't heard of it. And
1071
01:00:22,018 --> 01:00:24,120
it's yeah, it's so cute and.
1072
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:30,026
I'm really interested in this childish
experimentation of computers
1073
01:00:30,026 --> 01:00:33,763
that I guess it was around a lot more
while computers
1074
01:00:33,763 --> 01:00:37,734
were being established as like we didn't
really know what to do with them.
1075
01:00:37,734 --> 01:00:42,905
So it's like, Oh, we'll see
how these computers flow into society,
1076
01:00:42,905 --> 01:00:47,310
but also we'll see how how the computers
are being built by like kids.
1077
01:00:47,310 --> 01:00:53,249
And yeah, I also like this idea of kind
of making adjustments
1078
01:00:53,316 --> 01:00:54,851
to see what works
1079
01:00:54,851 --> 01:00:58,688
best for the children in that country.
1080
01:00:58,755 --> 01:01:01,157
And so, you know, and the like, Oh,
this wasn't working.
1081
01:01:01,157 --> 01:01:04,961
So that's like, you know, schools
preferring the micro B over the apple,
1082
01:01:04,961 --> 01:01:09,432
too, because of all the various reasons
that just fits in better.
1083
01:01:09,499 --> 01:01:12,602
And then I guess it's kind of sad later
when all of that goes away
1084
01:01:12,602 --> 01:01:16,172
and we all on exactly the same computer,
1085
01:01:16,239 --> 01:01:18,741
maybe it's not the best thing for us.
1086
01:01:18,741 --> 01:01:22,845
Yeah,
this is definitely like a a globalization
1087
01:01:22,945 --> 01:01:25,948
study which which I love.
1088
01:01:25,948 --> 01:01:29,485
Okay, cool. I think I think left and here.
1089
01:01:29,585 --> 01:01:36,459
Yeah, it's over an hour
and Oh, my God, my voice hurts world.
1090
01:01:36,526 --> 01:01:39,495
I'm proud of
you for, like, going through this week of.
1091
01:01:39,495 --> 01:01:41,397
Of migraines and, like, being emotional.
1092
01:01:41,397 --> 01:01:42,832
Yeah, I would say this.
1093
01:01:42,832 --> 01:01:46,169
Yeah, but,
you know, Yeah, we get through it.
1094
01:01:46,169 --> 01:01:46,769
We get through it.
1095
01:01:46,769 --> 01:01:47,270
Thank you.
1096
01:01:47,270 --> 01:01:48,738
I'm excited for next month.
1097
01:01:48,738 --> 01:01:50,707
I mean, hyped for this.
1098
01:01:50,707 --> 01:01:54,577
I met the computer
that we're going to be talking about
1099
01:01:54,577 --> 01:02:00,283
when I was visiting you at a well, were
you at it at the Computer History Museum?
1100
01:02:00,283 --> 01:02:01,951
And then I saw it at the moment.
1101
01:02:01,951 --> 01:02:04,520
So I'm yeah, I'm hyped.
1102
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:07,990
We'll let you in on on the goss
next, next episode, next month.
1103
01:02:07,990 --> 01:02:11,494
Thank you so much. Stay safe, everyone.
1104
01:02:11,561 --> 01:02:13,262
Goodbye. Day.