We’re back chatting about the early 2000s Nokia “Fashion Phones”! These phones preferenced a positioning of mobile phones as a fashion accessory, or fashion statement, over technological functionality. Following from the first two episodes of the season, Ana and Camila discuss gendered product design and marketing, aesthetic obsolescence, what “retro” really means, and why Nokia may have had an interest in creating these “experimental” designs in the first place.
References:
- Nokia “Distinctly Bold” Campaign: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG1JDYUrBUM
- Bramston, Dave, “Basics product design: Idea Searching”, 2008, Bloomsbury Academic
- De Giovanni, Pietro, “Cases of Circular Economy in Practice”, 2022, IGI Global
- Hjorth, Larissa, “Mobile media in the Asia Pacific : gender and the art of being mobile”, Routledge, 2009
- Katz, James E. and Sugiyama, Satomi, “Mobile Phones as Fashion Statements: The Co-creation of Mobile Communication’s Public Meaning”, 2005
- Shade, Leslie Regan, “Feminizing the Mobile: Gender Scripting of Mobiles in North America”, Continuum, 21:2, 2007, pp. 179-189
- https://www.mobilephonemuseum.com/phone-detail/nokia-7380
- https://www.mobilephonemuseum.com/phone-detail/nokia-7280
- https://www.theregister.com/2006/09/05/nokia_l_amour_collection/
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Hello, everyone.
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Welcome to Our Friend the Computer.
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I'm Ana and
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I'm Camila.
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I tell people about the podcast
and I say, like,
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The name
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Our Friend the Computer.
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And they say, Alfred, the computer?
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You know what? That would be good.
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Maybe I'll start calling my computer.
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Alfred. It's like how I studied fine arts.
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And occasionally people would like,
What are you studying?
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And I'd be like, Fine art.
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And they're like oh, finance.
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Interesting.
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It's your.
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Accent.
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I'm sorry.
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I apologize to all of our listeners.
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No, it's all good.
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Yeah.
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We're back
with another episode on cellphones.
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I think this is our third episode
on cell phones, which is very exciting.
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It's been quite
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focused on some quirky histories,
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a bit of a Nokia bit of bell telephone.
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And we're going back into Nokia now
and looking at their funky
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some funky collections.
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But yeah,
I would just want to do another quick
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thank you to Mal Media Archeology Lab
who have supplied us with
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audio translations again
throughout this episode
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and they'll kind of guide us through
some of the tech that we're mentioning.
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And yeah, we'll,
we'll go a little bit deeper
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into like ringtones and remix culture.
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Yeah, we'll get into that.
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How are you doing?
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Camilla Yeah, I'm doing good.
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I was like really excited
about this episode.
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For this.
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Month cause I just got really obsessed
with Nokia when I did that first.
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Episode.
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My research around
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that intersected with all these other
stories and and issues that
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I'm excited to talk about.
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And I guess like the topic
that we're going to talk about today
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is sort of it links that first episode
of like the history of Nokia with
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your episode from last month about bell
telephone, women and telephones.
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So specifically,
we're going to talk about fashion science.
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Do you know about fashion shows?
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You remember fashion phones?
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Uh, no.
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Um, no.
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I'm guessing you mean like phones
that were fashion fashionable.
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Or science. But.
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Or were they, like,
released by fashion companies?
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Kind of like a. Okay.
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So these were like mobile phones.
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Or cell phones which were designed
and marketed mostly to women.
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And they preference like a positioning
of mobile phones as a fashion accessory
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or like a fashion statement over there,
sort of technological functionality.
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And so it's like early 2000s
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and Nokia had a run of releases
of these collections of fashion phones,
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and they were really experimental
in design.
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But I looking at it, I feel like
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we'll get into this later in the episode,
but I feel like this
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sort of experimentation was actually
it wasn't so much
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that Nokia were experimenting
to create something new.
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It was more that experimentation was seen
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as fashionable,
like it's fashionable to be experimental.
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So the experimentation
in the esthetics of these phones
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was actually sort of
just like an element of marketing
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rather than them trying to like,
push the boundaries
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regardless of what they say in their PR
press releases.
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So they had these like collection vans and
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these collections.
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Had like more experimental designs
and less experimental designs.
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And so they were sort of trying.
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To appeal to.
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A range of people,
but they were also very expensive phones,
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they were status,
they were status symbols.
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And so that kind of
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links in with that
sort of like high fashion area.
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And they a lot of them were sold at
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like fashion stores rather than
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telecommunications stores.
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Okay, cool. Interesting.
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And I'm guessing
so this was the noughties, right?
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Yeah, This is like 2004. Okay. Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I feel like the noughties represented
kind of in my mind,
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like this true
era of, like, skeuomorphic design.
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Was skeuomorphic skeuomorphic.
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Oh, well, when a technological product
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like,
imitates a predecessor product to that.
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So for example,
if you've got your camera on your phone,
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the button to take a picture
or the logo that that navigates you
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to taking a picture will usually be like
an image of an old camera.
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And it's sort of too,
like familiar familiarize people
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with that kind of technology
as like a hint to what came before.
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Like how the save button.
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Is it still like that?
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But like the save button on a computer
is just like a floppy.
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It's like a floppy disk.
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Yeah, it's over file.
I don't know what it is. And I remember.
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Saying something like, like someone had it
probably on Tik Tok where
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someone had like, I think it was a joke,
but they were like holding a floppy disk
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and they were like, Oh, well, someone 3D
printed the save icon.
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MM Yeah, Yeah. It's that it was a flop.
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It was a flop. An actual floppy.
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Yeah, I love that stuff. It's really fun.
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But it's also, I mean I think technology
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always had like a, a some when it comes
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to user interfaces, it always had
some kind of skeuomorphic design.
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But I think
especially in the noughties, it started to
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show itself in like,
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like interfaces
as in like scroll bars would look like,
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you know, solid
kind of plastic things and um,
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things looked a little bit more textured
and yeah, these like fashion
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phones, for example, which would imitate
something else in the fashion industry.
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And I mean, I guess it was just,
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you know, a time of constant reproduction
and consumerism.
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Not that that's that much different to
now, but
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I think marketers back then would,
would you really use nostalgia to,
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you know, market their phones
and then in turn design their products
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with like extra ornamentation
to make them resemble another
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another object so that it's,
yeah, more familiar to the consumer
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because these things
were still kind of new.
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And I feel like this is also represented
in the ringtone design
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as well for Nokia, like the main
Nokia tune, which is called Grand Valves.
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It's a musical phrase from a
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piece of solo guitar music
by Francisco Raga
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called Grand Valse,
which was made in 1902.
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And it's also the name
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of a piece of music by Frederic Chopin.
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Chopin
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Tyga heard Chopin's Waltz
and reimagined it
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as a lovely kind of guitar solo nearly
70 years later, which then Nokia used
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90 or so years after that.
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So there's constantly remixing
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and nods to the past
or just used in the kind of skeuomorphic
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design and retro designs of Nokia,
but also in their in their ringtones.
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So yeah, I guess remix culture
was so prominent at this time
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and that also manifested
in, in the kind of fashion part of it.
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But I think Nokia is like super
into branding themselves
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as retro in some way because like you see
it, we're going to see it
00;08;36;06 - 00;08;40;08
now, like in this story,
but also I was looking up
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because, you
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know, Nokia is people want like bricks.
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I know, you know,
people want the old phones.
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Now, there's kind of like a Luddite,
modern Luddite, sort of.
00;08;50;18 - 00;08;51;19
Totally.
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And I was looking.
00;08;52;28 - 00;08;55;28
Up I was looking up historical Nokia stuff
and ended.
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Up on their current site
where there where they had a whole page
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that was promoting their phones
in this retro way.
00;09;05;01 - 00;09;07;10
Like, remember how our battery is.
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Really good and remember how like you can
drop us and we're way like still good.
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And then at the end it was like,
here's the like our retro designs.
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And then there's like the phone
that they sell now, which is not pretty
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but like it,
they clearly you still using that. Wow.
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Interesting. Cool.
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So the most famous of these.
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Like fashion phones
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that Nokia produced at this time was known
as the lipstick phone colloquially
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because it was like small in this vague
shape of a lipstick container.
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It was black and shiny.
00;09;41;10 - 00;09;43;10
And it also had this function.
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It had the there were. Two.
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Versions of this,
but the original one is the most famous
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and it had had a camera in it,
but it was hidden.
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And so you would kind of like pop open
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the like slide open the firing
because it's like a long rectangle.
00;09;59;01 - 00;10;03;11
And then the camera would be there
and it wasn't in subsequent versions.
00;10;03;11 - 00;10;07;19
I think there was some writing about
how maybe it was
00;10;07;19 - 00;10;13;15
they were sued by a camera company
that used that same function.
00;10;13;18 - 00;10;19;04
But there is something very lip sticky
about the way that it kind of pops open.
00;10;19;07 - 00;10;23;27
It feels like you're kind of
opening the lid of the lipstick. Yes.
00;10;23;29 - 00;10;28;09
And it also the screen, which is
really tiny, it doubled as a mirror.
00;10;28;09 - 00;10;30;25
So when the screen wasn't on, you.
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Could it was reflective. I love it.
00;10;33;27 - 00;10;37;00
And it costs around $1,000 today.
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So it was like a really
00;10;39;09 - 00;10;40;27
expensive chic.
00;10;40;27 - 00;10;41;20
It was chic, though.
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I think that back then, I'm
not sure how many people bought
00;10;46;25 - 00;10;51;16
French outright versus
like got them through a plan.
00;10;51;19 - 00;10;52;04
Yeah.
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So maybe the cost
like it's an expensive phone.
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It was seen as a status symbol, but
00;10;57;17 - 00;11;01;11
I don't know in terms of like
how many people actually used it,
00;11;01;13 - 00;11;06;06
like how that price point affected
the amount of users using it.
00;11;06;06 - 00;11;07;23
Yeah, Yeah.
00;11;07;23 - 00;11;10;19
So to facilitate this like small
and really unusual shape,
00;11;10;19 - 00;11;14;21
it didn't have a keyboard,
it had this tiny screen and then it click
00;11;14;21 - 00;11;18;09
will like early iPod,
like the ones that are kind of manual,
00;11;18;10 - 00;11;22;00
not the screen kind of lines.
00;11;22;02 - 00;11;24;06
And so you have to navigate like left
00;11;24;06 - 00;11;28;06
and right to get to the number or letter
you wanted if you were texting.
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It seemed like hellish.
00;11;29;24 - 00;11;32;19
I saw a video of someone on YouTube
doing it and.
00;11;32;19 - 00;11;37;15
It's like just linear letters
and then it's like, Hello.
00;11;37;15 - 00;11;39;00
And then if you want a space,
you have to like,
00;11;39;00 - 00;11;41;19
go all the way back to the start
and get the space
00;11;41;19 - 00;11;46;21
that if you want to like punctuation,
it's all the way. The end of the alphabet.
00;11;46;23 - 00;11;48;23
So to make, to make it a little easier.
00;11;48;23 - 00;11;53;04
It did have an address book
and also some predictive text abilities.
00;11;53;07 - 00;11;55;15
So if you are calling someone,
you basically need
00;11;55;15 - 00;11;57;04
to put every single person
in your address book.
00;11;57;04 - 00;11;59;01
Because it was so awful.
00;11;59;01 - 00;12;01;07
It's a type of numbers.
00;12;01;07 - 00;12;04;01
The press sort of stuff around it
00;12;04;01 - 00;12;07;09
called it the fantasy phone
for the fashion conscious, and it was
00;12;07;09 - 00;12;11;09
perfect to whip out at cocktails
and geared to attract attention
00;12;11;09 - 00;12;15;03
and become the talking point
at any high glamor soiree.
00;12;15;05 - 00;12;19;21
And the commercials
for the fashion collection were,
00;12;19;23 - 00;12;24;16
which this is part of, were directed
by photographer David LaChapelle.
00;12;24;18 - 00;12;26;18
And he he made three.
00;12;26;18 - 00;12;27;12
Did you watch these?
00;12;27;12 - 00;12;29;25
I sent you a list. Oh,
my gosh. I actually. Did.
00;12;29;25 - 00;12;30;22
And I.
00;12;30;22 - 00;12;36;01
I think you should know, last night
I went to sleep with the song in my head.
00;12;36;03 - 00;12;37;08
It's very catchy.
00;12;37;08 - 00;12;40;15
Just click the link
and just have a look at the now.
00;12;40;17 - 00;12;41;12
Yeah, have a look now.
00;12;41;12 - 00;12;50;25
Okay, now.
00;12;50;27 - 00;12;51;13
Okay.
00;12;51;13 - 00;12;55;26
So the model takes the lipstick phone
off of a clothing rack.
00;12;55;26 - 00;12;57;20
Well, that's one of the other phones.
I think.
00;12;57;20 - 00;12;58;29
It's like this clothing rack.
00;12;58;29 - 00;13;04;08
With all of these flip phones
placed over each of the coat hangers.
00;13;04;12 - 00;13;06;29
Yeah, That's so good.
00;13;06;29 - 00;13;09;21
And it's very like 2000.
00;13;09;21 - 00;13;11;23
It feels like.
00;13;11;23 - 00;13;14;06
What's the Britney Spears?
00;13;14;06 - 00;13;16;27
Yeah, it looks like a toxic music video.
00;13;16;27 - 00;13;18;00
Yeah. Amazing.
00;13;18;00 - 00;13;19;11
Yeah. So flashy.
00;13;19;11 - 00;13;23;16
So just like in your face
and, like, sexy and latex.
00;13;23;16 - 00;13;25;06
The interesting that it was directed
00;13;25;06 - 00;13;28;29
as well by the photographer
David LaChapelle, because
00;13;29;01 - 00;13;32;21
yeah, again, like just going back
to my thoughts about the noughties and,
00;13;32;21 - 00;13;37;14
and this topic,
I mean it was so obsessed with photography
00;13;37;16 - 00;13;42;15
like it seems like the noughties was just
a time of not just the consumerism boom,
00;13;42;15 - 00;13;46;08
but also of like the mass games,
like paparazzi,
00;13;46;08 - 00;13;50;14
celebrity gossip magazines, surveillance
capitalism, TV and the internet.
00;13;50;14 - 00;13;51;00
Now, Yeah, like.
00;13;51;00 - 00;13;56;00
Bloggers fashion, like celebrity
gossip blogs.
00;13;56;00 - 00;13;56;29
Yeah.
00;13;56;29 - 00;14;01;02
They were just like, all on this
very steep rise.
00;14;01;02 - 00;14;07;06
And this is obviously, you know, what
marketers were massively concerned with.
00;14;07;08 - 00;14;11;24
I guess they would be asking
questions like, how can we get a celebrity
00;14;11;24 - 00;14;16;18
to be papped with this, you know, or
how do we get this to be captured
00;14;16;20 - 00;14;20;18
in someone's photo that they've
that they're tagged in on Facebook?
00;14;20;20 - 00;14;23;04
Although Facebook, you know,
00;14;23;04 - 00;14;27;04
maybe boomed a couple of years
after I'm not sure Facebook.
00;14;27;07 - 00;14;31;08
I mean, I remember I got Facebook,
I think in my like in.
00;14;31;10 - 00;14;33;18
I don't want to tell people how I got.
Facebook.
00;14;33;18 - 00;14;36;25
I think in like 2007.
00;14;36;25 - 00;14;40;10
And yeah,
so maybe it was around that time.
00;14;40;10 - 00;14;41;13
But you know you know what I mean?
00;14;41;13 - 00;14;45;13
Like this we can see this type
of marketing tactic of a certain
00;14;45;13 - 00;14;51;16
like perverse type of optics
really powerfully unfolding.
00;14;51;19 - 00;14;53;24
And so I think, yeah, marketers
were just concerned
00;14;53;24 - 00;14;56;29
with adding a kind of shock value
to their products like that.
00;14;56;29 - 00;15;01;05
People would remember visually and see,
you know, for example, J.Lo
00;15;01;05 - 00;15;05;10
using it in a picture of her in a gossip
mag, like I guess that was
00;15;05;12 - 00;15;07;29
how trends carried by back then.
00;15;07;29 - 00;15;11;19
Well, the Lipstick Glam was actually
in a J.Lo music video.
00;15;11;21 - 00;15;14;17
Oh, amazing. So that's a perfect example.
00;15;14;17 - 00;15;24;08
Oh, there you go.
00;15;24;11 - 00;15;27;17
So the lipstick phone
was actually this 7280.
00;15;27;20 - 00;15;29;19
That's its official official name. Right.
00;15;29;19 - 00;15;31;16
And it was part of this 2000
00;15;31;16 - 00;15;34;16
full collection
that Nokia called the Fashion Collection.
00;15;34;23 - 00;15;38;25
It consisted of three
very uniquely designed phones.
00;15;38;28 - 00;15;41;03
There was the very strange lipstick
00;15;41;03 - 00;15;44;26
find that was like a candy bar,
like a regular kind of sign.
00;15;44;28 - 00;15;47;06
And then,
I mean, they all have like weird designs.
00;15;47;06 - 00;15;50;11
But in terms of the actual structure,
and then there was this kind of like
00;15;50;11 - 00;15;56;19
flip sign that you actually sort
of twisted the top around.
00;15;56;22 - 00;15;58;17
But all of them were designed
00;15;58;17 - 00;16;03;07
all of them were inspired
by like 1920s Art Deco styles.
00;16;03;10 - 00;16;06;18
And instead of launching at a tech event,
the collection was launched
00;16;06;18 - 00;16;08;22
at a fashion event in Shanghai.
00;16;08;22 - 00;16;13;10
And it seems like they were largely
targeted to the Asian and European
00;16;13;17 - 00;16;14;28
markets.
00;16;14;28 - 00;16;18;07
And it was really all about
how the look and design of these phones
00;16;18;07 - 00;16;23;16
would fit in with your personal style
and your, like, sexy, cool, sleek life.
00;16;23;23 - 00;16;27;26
It was about style over functionality.
00;16;27;28 - 00;16;28;10
I guess.
00;16;28;10 - 00;16;32;26
Also, just looking back at that, David
LaChapelle video with the models
00;16;33;03 - 00;16;36;12
taking the flip phone off of the hangers
and then opening them.
00;16;36;14 - 00;16;41;15
There's a type of like choreography
to the phone
00;16;41;15 - 00;16;45;02
or like the phone forces,
the type of choreography onto you
00;16;45;02 - 00;16;46;10
where you like flip things
00;16;46;10 - 00;16;50;07
or you twist things and you do this
sort of like the voguing along
00;16;50;07 - 00;16;53;29
with the phone or like the phone
does this kind of dance, this like model
00;16;53;29 - 00;16;59;05
ask like awkward, counterintuitive,
like ballet, voguing dance.
00;16;59;07 - 00;17;01;08
Yeah, It's a really interesting,
00;17;01;08 - 00;17;05;08
like, physical correlation
to what they were marketing.
00;17;05;08 - 00;17;07;23
I guess with David LaChapelle in mind.
00;17;07;23 - 00;17;11;00
There was another part of
I don't have like the research with me
00;17;11;00 - 00;17;17;02
here, but it when they launched
this phone, they also launched like.
00;17;17;04 - 00;17;18;17
It seemed like it was like a.
00;17;18;17 - 00;17;22;06
Another device
that would connect to the phone
00;17;22;13 - 00;17;26;10
that you would have like round your neck
and it had a bigger screen
00;17;26;10 - 00;17;31;07
and you could like plug in headphones
and so you could do more with it.
00;17;31;10 - 00;17;33;00
But it was like connected to.
00;17;33;00 - 00;17;34;07
Your site. Right?
00;17;34;07 - 00;17;35;25
So it's kind of disembodied.
00;17;35;25 - 00;17;38;19
It was like a necklace.
00;17;38;19 - 00;17;41;02
So you could have that
and still be like able
00;17;41;02 - 00;17;43;18
to use some function,
like have more functionality.
00;17;43;18 - 00;17;44;29
But then you could also have this like.
00;17;44;29 - 00;17;47;07
Lipstick finally talking.
00;17;47;07 - 00;17;47;18
I don't. Know.
00;17;47;18 - 00;17;49;12
I didn't say that much about it,
but it looked like
00;17;49;12 - 00;17;53;03
it was something like an accessory
that was launched around the same time.
00;17;53;05 - 00;17;54;22
Cool.
00;17;54;22 - 00;17;55;13
So the following.
00;17;55;13 - 00;17;58;20
Year, in 2005,
Nokia announced what was called
00;17;58;20 - 00;18;03;06
the L'Amour Collection,
and its code name was Paris.
00;18;03;06 - 00;18;03;27
So it's code name.
00;18;03;27 - 00;18;07;15
So like when they were designing it
in secret before they launched it,
00;18;07;22 - 00;18;08;26
they were calling it Paris.
00;18;08;26 - 00;18;10;05
So it's very expensive.
00;18;10;05 - 00;18;11;27
So fashion, you know.
00;18;11;27 - 00;18;13;28
What was the code name for exactly.
00;18;13;28 - 00;18;15;23
Just so people didn't know.
00;18;15;23 - 00;18;16;00
Yeah.
00;18;16;00 - 00;18;16;16
You know, like all.
00;18;16;16 - 00;18;20;14
Of these pretty much
every tech product has a code name while.
00;18;20;14 - 00;18;21;13
They're in development.
00;18;21;13 - 00;18;23;16
Yeah, like an internal project name.
00;18;23;16 - 00;18;26;15
Oh, okay. I didn't know that. Cool.
00;18;26;18 - 00;18;27;12
And so this the
00;18;27;12 - 00;18;30;17
L'Amour collection was an extension
on the fashion collection.
00;18;30;17 - 00;18;35;12
So it consisted of updated versions
of each of these three original phones.
00;18;35;14 - 00;18;39;27
And they weren't
marketed as Art Deco inspired anymore.
00;18;40;00 - 00;18;42;26
Instead, they were trend inspired.
00;18;42;26 - 00;18;43;29
And were, quote.
00;18;43;29 - 00;18;47;25
Continuing to push the boundaries
of mobile phone design.
00;18;47;27 - 00;18;53;00
So a new element to the marketing was
that they were sold through these high end
00;18;53;00 - 00;18;56;21
fashion retailers
and they also really highlighted the types
00;18;56;21 - 00;19;00;17
of materials or pastiches of materials
that they were using.
00;19;00;17 - 00;19;05;04
So from the from the press release,
they said they're essentially accentuated
00;19;05;04 - 00;19;09;09
with leather cloth,
metal and ceramic finishes.
00;19;09;11 - 00;19;14;18
So they had like little fabric tags
on the phones to sort of, I guess,
00;19;14;18 - 00;19;17;18
further connect them to this concept
and consumers nature of fashion.
00;19;17;18 - 00;19;18;15
But the mobile
00;19;18;15 - 00;19;22;29
phone Museum on their website
says that these tags tended to attract.
00;19;22;29 - 00;19;26;21
A lot of debt
when the phone was like in use.
00;19;26;23 - 00;19;31;01
So, you know,
I guess got washed in car washes.
00;19;31;03 - 00;19;32;14
And these phones.
00;19;32;14 - 00;19;35;25
They really did use like they had
little sections of leather on them
00;19;35;25 - 00;19;39;16
and they were trying
to use these different
00;19;39;18 - 00;19;42;25
fabrics and and materials.
00;19;42;25 - 00;19;48;10
They also had a lot of crafted elements
and they used etching and then I think
00;19;48;10 - 00;19;53;11
one of the later ones had kind of a macro
made little like dongle.
00;19;53;14 - 00;19;55;13
And then some came with velvet
00;19;55;13 - 00;19;58;13
pouches and leather covers.
00;19;58;17 - 00;20;01;29
And then each of these models
also had really specific phone background,
00;20;01;29 - 00;20;05;20
screensavers, video ringtones,
which I'd forgotten about.
00;20;05;22 - 00;20;09;26
And, and these accessories
like the pouches and things. Wow.
00;20;10;03 - 00;20;14;10
So they were really customized
to quite a crazy level.
00;20;14;11 - 00;20;17;11
Well, it was it was an accessory.
00;20;17;17 - 00;20;18;04
Yeah.
00;20;18;04 - 00;20;19;21
And things like, you know switch
00;20;19;21 - 00;20;22;12
I don't think they had them
but other phones around this time
00;20;22;12 - 00;20;26;28
had this sort of like switchable
faceplates and, you know, this
00;20;26;28 - 00;20;32;03
like customization options to
I don't know, reflect your personality.
00;20;32;06 - 00;20;32;28
Yeah. Yeah.
00;20;32;28 - 00;20;36;26
And as you know, as, as,
as not as it should, but
00;20;36;28 - 00;20;41;07
it definitely technology
should could definitely do this.
00;20;41;07 - 00;20;45;29
We're used to these very blank canvases
now and I don't know why I'm so surprised
00;20;45;29 - 00;20;50;04
whenever I hear about these
like crazy looking phones.
00;20;50;06 - 00;20;53;06
And it's also interesting to see
00;20;53;06 - 00;20;56;01
Skeuomorphism represented
like this in hardware.
00;20;56;01 - 00;21;00;09
Like, I think it's just so kitsch
and like you said, pastiche
00;21;00;09 - 00;21;04;02
and nostalgic of, of that and of the time.
00;21;04;05 - 00;21;07;00
And I'm mostly fascinated
also with the meta aspect
00;21;07;00 - 00;21;11;27
of the physicality of it, because
like Skeuomorphism in tech is, you know,
00;21;12;01 - 00;21;16;05
first represented in software design
with like the logos and the symbols.
00;21;16;07 - 00;21;20;09
They represent an older technology
to, you know, familiarize people with it.
00;21;20;11 - 00;21;23;27
And then over time
it like encompasses the whole product
00;21;23;27 - 00;21;27;25
so that it embodies
even the phone itself that it like
00;21;27;28 - 00;21;31;24
begins to take the shape
and feel of older things and former
00;21;32;01 - 00;21;35;07
paraphernalia
that you said, like taking on,
00;21;35;07 - 00;21;38;07
you know, leather or cloth or wood.
00;21;38;11 - 00;21;43;07
It's really funny to think of it as this
like object with this kind of Benjamin
00;21;43;07 - 00;21;47;24
Button effect that starts from the inside
and extends to its outer form
00;21;47;24 - 00;21;53;06
and like, you know, gets gets older.
00;21;53;08 - 00;21;54;03
But I wonder though,
00;21;54;03 - 00;21;58;01
like how far did the impracticality go?
00;21;58;01 - 00;22;02;02
Like when does it really become useless?
00;22;02;02 - 00;22;03;17
Like, when did people start
00;22;03;17 - 00;22;08;03
seeing it as an inappropriate
or like superfluous thing?
00;22;08;06 - 00;22;10;07
I mean, I think it. Was so
the lipstick for it.
00;22;10;07 - 00;22;13;07
I think it kind of
was always a successful thing.
00;22;13;08 - 00;22;17;04
It was it was a accessory.
00;22;17;06 - 00;22;19;11
Then mobile phones,
they point out that there's
00;22;19;11 - 00;22;22;22
also kind of this like tech
cultural element to the collection
00;22;22;22 - 00;22;26;29
and I to the fashion collection, that
level collection that I don't remember.
00;22;26;29 - 00;22;30;23
But they said that it was common
in this era for people,
00;22;30;23 - 00;22;34;22
particularly people with money,
I'm guessing, to have multiple phones
00;22;34;25 - 00;22;39;05
and they would like swap out this
SIM card between these phones
00;22;39;08 - 00;22;40;25
for different purposes.
00;22;40;25 - 00;22;43;18
So this collection in the lipstick frame
specifically
00;22;43;18 - 00;22;47;01
was viewed at the time
more as like a night out phone.
00;22;47;03 - 00;22;50;25
So perhaps the lack of functionality
or the difficulty.
00;22;50;25 - 00;22;54;04
Of actually doing
cell phone specific tasks.
00;22;54;07 - 00;22;57;06
Wasn't so much of an issue for people
since they were
00;22;57;14 - 00;23;00;04
they weren't using it
for like business concerns.
00;23;00;04 - 00;23;02;03
It was more
00;23;02;06 - 00;23;03;21
like a purse.
00;23;03;21 - 00;23;05;26
Or literally a lipstick.
00;23;05;26 - 00;23;06;29
Yeah, so it was like a lipstick.
00;23;06;29 - 00;23;09;29
All the lipstick is more
probably more functional.
00;23;10;05 - 00;23;15;08
Yeah, true.
00;23;15;11 - 00;23;29;02
Or so
00;23;29;04 - 00;23;33;10
in the previous episodes,
we looked at how women's use of phones.
00;23;33;10 - 00;23;37;04
Was like unexpected by the manufacturers
and then how
00;23;37;04 - 00;23;41;10
this became marketed
back to them in those same ways.
00;23;41;13 - 00;23;45;00
And here I think we sort of
see the end result of that.
00;23;45;02 - 00;23;49;05
I'm thinking about the concept
of the gender script and Ellen Venter's
00;23;49;05 - 00;23;53;15
work, looking at things like raises
designed and marketed to women versus men
00;23;53;18 - 00;23;57;12
and Larissa Joyce references
this in her book
00;23;57;17 - 00;24;03;11
Mobile Media in the Asia Pacific Gender
and the Art of Being Mobile from 2008,
00;24;03;13 - 00;24;06;13
where she describes gendered scripting
as, quote,
00;24;06;19 - 00;24;10;05
the way in which gender is inflected
in the designing and marketing
00;24;10;05 - 00;24;15;01
processes, imbuing technologies
with gendered modes of practice.
00;24;15;04 - 00;24;16;21
Yeah,
00;24;16;21 - 00;24;18;28
this really does refer to our last
00;24;18;28 - 00;24;22;03
episode quite
well where we took on the analysis
00;24;22;03 - 00;24;25;05
that these technologies
like shape genders more
00;24;25;05 - 00;24;28;28
so than the vise versa.
00;24;29;01 - 00;24;32;10
Yeah, I remember
there was a good quote from Lana Rakow
00;24;32;10 - 00;24;38;05
where she stated that the women's
use of the telephone is an an enactment
00;24;38;08 - 00;24;41;07
of socially constructed differences
resulting
00;24;41;07 - 00;24;44;21
from women's assigned place.
00;24;44;24 - 00;24;47;26
And I suppose also a man's assigned place.
00;24;47;26 - 00;24;52;21
There must have been some phones
designed for the masculine.
00;24;52;24 - 00;24;55;16
If we're looking at this world
that is, you know, so obviously
00;24;55;16 - 00;24;58;15
concerned with with binaries,
00;24;58;19 - 00;24;59;09
right? Yeah.
00;24;59;09 - 00;25;02;14
Like at the same time
as the fashion in the wall collections,
00;25;02;14 - 00;25;08;01
Nokia had a more masculine counterpart
and it was called the N series
00;25;08;03 - 00;25;11;21
and it wasn't
marketed as a fashion accessory,
00;25;11;21 - 00;25;14;01
but it was marketed
this like incredibly functional.
00;25;14;01 - 00;25;16;09
Multimedia. Device.
00;25;16;09 - 00;25;20;08
The little thing that they
the little tagline was that you could play
00;25;20;08 - 00;25;23;25
record, edit or listen
while you send, share, print and download.
00;25;24;00 - 00;25;25;13
Literally just listening. Yeah.
00;25;25;13 - 00;25;27;24
All of the functions of this of.
00;25;27;24 - 00;25;30;17
This device as opposed to
the little wall collection which actually.
00;25;30;17 - 00;25;32;14
Limited the ability to do those things.
00;25;32;14 - 00;25;33;19
Yeah.
00;25;33;19 - 00;25;37;19
And the answer is this market
under the Nokia slogan of Connect People
00;25;37;19 - 00;25;41;21
and the L'Amour collection,
used the slogan Inspiring Imagination.
00;25;41;23 - 00;25;46;07
And Nokia had separate ads
for these collections which targeted men
00;25;46;07 - 00;25;50;29
versus women, which you can like
see through who was in these ads.
00;25;51;02 - 00;25;57;20
And they promoted the phones
with like gender specific functions.
00;25;57;22 - 00;25;58;04
This is
00;25;58;04 - 00;26;01;29
quite familiar as this book,
which I think sums it up well, is
00;26;02;01 - 00;26;05;16
unlike the end series, The Love War
promotion neglected to entertain
00;26;05;16 - 00;26;09;10
the technological features
as if the phone were a cultural artifact
00;26;09;10 - 00;26;13;09
for that purpose,
except the form, status and style.
00;26;13;11 - 00;26;15;29
This is a clear example of how industry
00;26;15;29 - 00;26;19;04
concepts analyzes
the divide between male and female uses.
00;26;19;11 - 00;26;22;20
Male users are interested in content
and functional technology,
00;26;22;20 - 00;26;26;12
while female uses represented
in the advertisements by a female model
00;26;26;12 - 00;26;30;07
dressed in retro clothing and looking off
dreamily into the distance,
00;26;30;09 - 00;26;34;12
only concerned with the device
as a fashion symbol.
00;26;34;15 - 00;26;37;14
So something else
that I'm interested here in here,
00;26;37;14 - 00;26;39;24
which we mentioned
at the top of the episode
00;26;39;24 - 00;26;43;01
a little bit was this like retro
aspect of the collection.
00;26;43;04 - 00;26;45;29
And I think we can see here like this
how that contrast
00;26;45;29 - 00;26;49;24
with the more futuristic
technological promotion of the N series.
00;26;49;26 - 00;26;50;19
And I feel like
00;26;50;19 - 00;26;54;28
with the L'Amour collection, you know,
that borrowing esthetics from eras
00;26;55;01 - 00;26;59;22
that represented less freedom for women
and more descriptive gender roles.
00;26;59;25 - 00;27;03;13
And it's it's showing it's
00;27;03;15 - 00;27;07;21
it's under the guise
of like freedom and self-expression.
00;27;07;23 - 00;27;13;24
But if by looking at their
references, it kind of paints
00;27;13;26 - 00;27;15;11
a grim picture.
00;27;15;11 - 00;27;16;16
Yeah.
00;27;16;16 - 00;27;20;21
The way that women were more controlled
in these earlier eras,
00;27;20;21 - 00;27;26;12
we can see how that continues
into cellphones, into mobile phones.
00;27;26;14 - 00;27;30;29
So Leslie Reagan Shade has a radical title
00;27;31;00 - 00;27;34;12
feminizing the mobile gender
scripting of mobiles in North America.
00;27;34;14 - 00;27;37;10
And she says that we should pay attention
to the ways in which objects
00;27;37;10 - 00;27;42;12
such as cell phones,
come with their own disciplining networks,
00;27;42;14 - 00;27;44;29
similar to technological scripts.
00;27;44;29 - 00;27;49;01
And she she talks a little bit
about like mobiles, disciplining,
00;27;49;03 - 00;27;54;06
disciplining in mobiles
like tweens in terms of parental controls.
00;27;54;08 - 00;27;58;00
But then there's also a lot of phones
around this time that start to include
00;27;58;00 - 00;28;02;28
menstrual calendars, calorie counters
and other features, which now I guess a.
00;28;03;02 - 00;28;06;10
Apps that we use which are used to.
00;28;06;13 - 00;28;10;09
Discipline, monitor and to centralize
women through emphasizing bodily
00;28;10;09 - 00;28;16;00
preoccupations and also, interestingly,
she says that camera and video phones,
00;28;16;00 - 00;28;20;11
text messaging, ringtones and email,
a feature is built into mobiles.
00;28;20;11 - 00;28;23;13
But when marketed to women,
they're marketed to women
00;28;23;13 - 00;28;26;12
in their roles
as consumers and girlfriends.
00;28;26;17 - 00;28;28;23
Yeah. Wow. Interesting.
00;28;28;23 - 00;28;32;01
So there's yeah,
there's the coding of gender
00;28;32;01 - 00;28;36;24
within the hardware here in terms of the,
you know, the styles that were offered.
00;28;36;24 - 00;28;42;18
And then there's the software
in terms of the esthetics again, but
00;28;42;21 - 00;28;45;09
also within the user experience design.
00;28;45;09 - 00;28;51;02
Like you can literally design gender roles
with user experience,
00;28;51;02 - 00;28;56;24
like making apps too
for perform gender specific tasks.
00;28;56;27 - 00;28;59;03
That's
a really that's a really good analysis.
00;28;59;03 - 00;29;04;26
I guess this is also seen
in the role of the secretary,
00;29;04;28 - 00;29;08;21
one of the first major job positions
that recruited women
00;29;08;23 - 00;29;12;09
when women were first
and included in the white collar
00;29;12;09 - 00;29;16;25
economy, women were already familiar
with these technological
00;29;16;25 - 00;29;20;26
tasks of tracking, documenting customer
00;29;20;26 - 00;29;24;24
service, polite ness and orderliness
00;29;24;26 - 00;29;28;17
when they were given these app tasks
for the new Nokia cell phone.
00;29;28;17 - 00;29;30;07
I guess so, yeah.
00;29;30;07 - 00;29;35;02
It makes sense
that this women's collection was possibly
00;29;35;02 - 00;29;40;11
quite popular and made sense
in terms of who their customer base was.
00;29;40;13 - 00;29;43;04
And yeah, you can see that like there's
00;29;43;04 - 00;29;47;25
this direct line of, of work
influencing culture
00;29;47;25 - 00;29;53;05
and subsequently like culture influencing
work.
00;29;53;07 - 00;29;53;17
Yeah.
00;29;53;17 - 00;29;57;09
There's like a section
at the end of her article
00;29;57;09 - 00;30;00;18
which talks about how gender scripts
can illuminate how gendered
00;30;00;18 - 00;30;04;13
user representations are inextricably part
of designing artifacts,
00;30;04;15 - 00;30;08;22
and that she talks about like how
her article looks at mobile advertising.
00;30;08;23 - 00;30;11;24
She says that the way she looks
at that highlights how women
00;30;12;00 - 00;30;16;07
have been inscribed as particular users
and consumers, and mentions
00;30;16;07 - 00;30;20;19
that when mobiles were first marketed
in the nineties to women, they were often
00;30;20;19 - 00;30;27;23
marketed as tools for remote mothering
or for like security and safety for women.
00;30;27;25 - 00;30;28;15
But obviously
00;30;28;15 - 00;30;32;08
for men it's as we've seen,
as more kind of like business.
00;30;32;11 - 00;30;33;02
Yeah.
00;30;33;02 - 00;30;36;14
Make some money, be independent.
00;30;36;17 - 00;30;39;07
And this sort of
I was interested in this kind
00;30;39;07 - 00;30;42;11
of idea of gendered product design
and I found a.
00;30;42;11 - 00;30;44;05
Textbook to like teaching product.
00;30;44;05 - 00;30;46;08
Design from the 2000.
00;30;46;08 - 00;30;49;19
And I have a section on product gender,
and it says although it is preferable
00;30;49;19 - 00;30;53;27
to develop items that are non-gender
specific to appeal to a broader market.
00;30;54;00 - 00;30;54;29
It is often the case.
00;30;54;29 - 00;30;57;08
That products are positioned
for specific audiences.
00;30;57;08 - 00;30;59;21
Gender specific products
are carefully researched
00;30;59;21 - 00;31;04;22
and aimed to consider the conscious
and subconscious perceptions of a user,
00;31;04;25 - 00;31;08;21
and they do reference to the collection
specifically talking about
00;31;08;23 - 00;31;11;05
that it like embraces
a specific gender esthetic
00;31;11;05 - 00;31;14;05
through the considered use
of ornamentation and fashion.
00;31;14;09 - 00;31;15;17
So in this way it's like the.
00;31;15;17 - 00;31;17;17
It's the link between.
00;31;17;17 - 00;31;21;01
The the gendered
like they're specifically going towards.
00;31;21;04 - 00;31;22;17
An audience.
00;31;22;17 - 00;31;26;10
And they've decided
that fashion is the way.
00;31;26;17 - 00;31;28;10
To get to that audience.
00;31;28;10 - 00;31;32;12
And so then and then so then all of that
experimentation in that the design and,
00;31;32;14 - 00;31;37;23
and even the choice
of using like craft techniques
00;31;37;25 - 00;31;38;10
is all
00;31;38;10 - 00;31;42;07
kind of
a big lyric that all feeds into the other.
00;31;42;09 - 00;31;47;02
But I think this is also like
a really important thing to look into
00;31;47;04 - 00;31;49;16
when you're looking at
like how gender is constructed
00;31;49;16 - 00;31;52;29
because we need a material analysis
for that.
00;31;52;29 - 00;31;55;28
Like there are material
00;31;56;02 - 00;32;00;17
kind of instantiation of gender.
00;32;00;20 - 00;32;05;03
You know, it's like gender is kind of
perpetuated through these material things.
00;32;05;06 - 00;32;07;29
So this is just kind of a very like,
00;32;07;29 - 00;32;11;05
hyped up version of that.
00;32;11;07 - 00;32;14;28
I think we also kind of skate like,
these phones don't exist in a vacuum.
00;32;14;28 - 00;32;18;29
They're existing within the mobile phone
industry and obviously.
00;32;19;01 - 00;32;20;27
You know, society in general that for the.
00;32;20;27 - 00;32;24;28
Mobile phone industry, production
is based on planned obsolescence.
00;32;25;00 - 00;32;28;18
So like where like the way
that the mobile phone industry
00;32;28;21 - 00;32;31;14
makes money is to get us to buy
new phones.
00;32;31;14 - 00;32;31;24
Right.
00;32;31;24 - 00;32;35;11
And and so there's like the idea
of planned obsolescence.
00;32;35;11 - 00;32;41;08
And I think I, I sort of understood it
in terms of functional obsolescence.
00;32;41;08 - 00;32;41;23
So, you know,
00;32;41;23 - 00;32;46;03
like with with Apple Computers or whatever
it is, like I'm always buying and use my
00;32;46;04 - 00;32;46;15
something, right?
00;32;46;15 - 00;32;48;20
Currently
my phone battery is completely dead.
00;32;48;20 - 00;32;51;01
Like it lasts a couple of hours.
00;32;51;01 - 00;32;53;19
I'm being honest
and I know I need me sorry, you know,
00;32;53;19 - 00;32;57;12
but I found this book called Cases
of Circular Economy in Practice
00;32;57;12 - 00;33;00;19
and it talks about it outlines
so the different types of planned
00;33;00;19 - 00;33;04;10
obsolescence, the function of quality
and of desirability.
00;33;04;12 - 00;33;07;03
And so I think that desirability is where
00;33;07;03 - 00;33;09;29
we're kind of sitting in this story.
00;33;09;29 - 00;33;15;03
So in speaking on that,
it says this strategy of desire
00;33;15;03 - 00;33;17;27
that's planned
obsolescence, of desirability
00;33;17;27 - 00;33;21;03
consists in changing
superficial aspects of the product
00;33;21;03 - 00;33;24;03
with the aim of making the previous
product undesirable.
00;33;24;08 - 00;33;27;20
In this case, the core
function of the product is still sound.
00;33;27;22 - 00;33;28;16
For this reason,
00;33;28;16 - 00;33;33;13
this obsolescence strategy is also called
psychological or esthetic obsolescence.
00;33;33;15 - 00;33;36;16
Oh, okay. That's
that's really interesting.
00;33;36;16 - 00;33;40;10
I had never thought about planned
obsolescence regarding
00;33;40;10 - 00;33;45;09
esthetics too much,
but of course that is a thing.
00;33;45;12 - 00;33;46;08
So do you think
00;33;46;08 - 00;33;49;10
there were they were making things
specifically
00;33;49;10 - 00;33;53;11
weird and naff
so that the trends would die out quicker?
00;33;53;13 - 00;33;56;27
Yes, this is my theory,
but it's interesting that.
00;33;56;27 - 00;33;58;07
I feel like
00;33;58;07 - 00;34;02;15
we don't have so much of this like planned
obsolescence of desirability anymore.
00;34;02;15 - 00;34;05;29
It's because everything looks
very similar.
00;34;06;01 - 00;34;08;22
The only thing I'm thinking is
that they've brought back
00;34;08;22 - 00;34;10;27
the kind of G3 colors.
00;34;10;27 - 00;34;13;10
Of of things, and that maybe.
00;34;13;10 - 00;34;16;23
Is desirability sort of aspect.
00;34;16;23 - 00;34;17;21
Of the phone.
00;34;17;21 - 00;34;20;13
So planned obsolescence, esthetic planned
00;34;20;13 - 00;34;24;13
obsolescence is a nostalgic thing
and therefore it's coming back into trend.
00;34;24;13 - 00;34;25;13
No, no, no.
00;34;25;13 - 00;34;26;18
Well, I mean, yes,
00;34;26;18 - 00;34;30;09
I guess what I'm saying is that it wasn't
something like this is second place.
00;34;30;12 - 00;34;32;26
It wasn't something that
that we've had for.
00;34;32;26 - 00;34;37;15
A long time, because all our
all our stuff is like the same color now.
00;34;37;15 - 00;34;38;28
Yeah, boring.
00;34;38;28 - 00;34;41;28
But now they start,
they've got like yellow laptops.
00;34;42;05 - 00;34;45;25
So it's, you know, it's
kind of slowly coming in.
00;34;45;28 - 00;34;46;07
Yeah.
00;34;46;07 - 00;34;49;10
And it has,
there has been like a shift lately,
00;34;49;10 - 00;34;51;19
but for so long
we haven't had that, you know.
00;34;51;19 - 00;34;52;01
Yeah.
00;34;52;01 - 00;34;57;12
Maximalism is also having a
come back minimalism is old.
00;34;57;14 - 00;35;01;00
So I think this was the strategy of Nokia
for this fashion phase.
00;35;01;00 - 00;35;02;25
I was very confused
as I was researching this.
00;35;02;25 - 00;35;05;08
I'm like, What is going on?
00;35;05;08 - 00;35;06;16
That when they.
00;35;06;16 - 00;35;11;05
The clue for me was when they switched
from Art Deco inspired to trend inspired
00;35;11;07 - 00;35;12;17
like they were designing
00;35;12;17 - 00;35;16;00
to match up with the fashion trends,
which are notoriously short
00;35;16;03 - 00;35;20;09
and like the more experimental
an esthetic design, the more likely
00;35;20;15 - 00;35;24;07
they would be to become desirable,
obsolete.
00;35;24;10 - 00;35;26;14
And it seems to me
that most of the elements
00;35;26;14 - 00;35;30;29
specifically marketed to women,
such as design materials, even ringtones,
00;35;31;01 - 00;35;34;08
are made to be replaced in future
phone releases
00;35;34;16 - 00;35;38;04
while those marketed to men
the loss of technological functionality.
00;35;38;04 - 00;35;41;11
If the phones are made
to be improved and upgraded.
00;35;41;13 - 00;35;44;18
So in the world of these advertisements,
men are moving
00;35;44;18 - 00;35;48;10
further into the future
and women are being held still or in fact
00;35;48;10 - 00;35;53;04
returned to the past in terms
of the references to like retro stuff.
00;35;53;04 - 00;35;54;05
Yeah.
00;35;54;05 - 00;35;58;00
So with trends, it's
just like a replacement of the esthetic
00;35;58;00 - 00;36;00;16
kind of packaging.
00;36;00;16 - 00;36;02;24
It's and for men it's this like, oh,
00;36;02;24 - 00;36;07;22
we're going to, we have a better camera,
we have a better, you know,
00;36;07;25 - 00;36;10;16
calling abilities.
00;36;10;16 - 00;36;13;19
And I guess also yeah, that's,
that's being reflected
00;36;13;19 - 00;36;18;10
in the esthetic trends of the binary
because you've got,
00;36;18;12 - 00;36;22;08
you know, like you said,
a lot of the fashion collection was like
00;36;22;11 - 00;36;26;19
Art Deco inspired
and that was like all kind of position
00;36;26;19 - 00;36;31;01
towards women and then the kind of men's
phones, whereas sci fi inspired.
00;36;31;01 - 00;36;33;17
So it was all like futuristic
and looking ahead,
00;36;33;17 - 00;36;37;24
which is such a backwards
way of, of kind of marketing something
00;36;37;24 - 00;36;41;25
or creating a narrative because obviously,
you know, the future should belong
00;36;41;25 - 00;36;46;04
to everyone, including especially
including women and non-binary people.
00;36;46;04 - 00;36;49;11
So it's like, why would you?
00;36;49;13 - 00;36;52;13
It's still so baffling to me,
00;36;52;14 - 00;36;54;15
but that is how they operated.
00;36;54;15 - 00;36;57;29
And they and it's, you know,
with those commercials that we watched, it
00;36;57;29 - 00;37;02;06
has this the way that they advertise
the fashion collection.
00;37;02;06 - 00;37;06;20
Tell them what collection did have like
a futuristic that's true vibe to.
00;37;06;20 - 00;37;09;21
It That's David LaChapelle
that's his artwork that's.
00;37;09;21 - 00;37;12;17
Just really it
But it was like it was true.
00;37;12;17 - 00;37;15;25
It was a trend
like with the with the Britney video.
00;37;15;29 - 00;37;17;13
Yeah, it wasn't.
00;37;17;13 - 00;37;19;21
It was like this sort of fake future.
00;37;19;21 - 00;37;22;18
It was the esthetics of the future.
00;37;22;18 - 00;37;23;12
Yeah.
00;37;23;12 - 00;37;25;14
Without kind of bringing.
00;37;25;14 - 00;37;28;13
Having the functionality stuff
in it. Yeah.
00;37;28;15 - 00;37;31;15
Like in fact
making the functionality worse
00;37;31;20 - 00;37;34;18
and preference saying the esthetics.
00;37;34;18 - 00;37;34;26
Yeah.
00;37;34;26 - 00;37;39;15
And I guess you did
need to have like futuristic models,
00;37;39;15 - 00;37;43;04
you know,
strutting around with fancy phones in,
00;37;43;07 - 00;37;47;04
in fashion lines because yeah, men
00;37;47;04 - 00;37;53;07
still needed to fantasize
about science fiction type women. And.
00;37;53;10 - 00;37;54;07
And like
00;37;54;07 - 00;37;57;29
to create a narrative where men
should be attracted to science fiction.
00;37;57;29 - 00;38;02;07
There has to be some sort of women
trope within that narrative that's true,
00;38;02;07 - 00;38;03;07
you know.
00;38;03;07 - 00;38;05;01
And also it's the twins.
00;38;05;01 - 00;38;07;09
Like,
I think that there was just a future,
00;38;07;09 - 00;38;10;02
a thing like a sci fi future
trend going on.
00;38;10;02 - 00;38;11;01
Yeah, the millennial.
00;38;11;01 - 00;38;13;04
The Internet just came about as well.
00;38;13;04 - 00;38;15;00
Yeah.
00;38;15;00 - 00;38;18;21
So I was kind of trying to see
what happened
00;38;18;23 - 00;38;22;29
with these science and, you know,
they had these two sets,
00;38;23;02 - 00;38;26;18
they kind of had three sets of these
phones, They had the fashion collection
00;38;26;18 - 00;38;27;25
and then they had the L'Amour collection.
00;38;27;25 - 00;38;29;27
But then there was
some like additional phones added.
00;38;29;27 - 00;38;32;19
To the collection.
00;38;32;19 - 00;38;35;11
But the and I couldn't like, work out
what was going on.
00;38;35;11 - 00;38;38;20
And I was like, oh, I did a whole episode
about the history of Nokia.
00;38;38;20 - 00;38;42;14
So I looked and looked at my timeline
and I realized that
00;38;42;14 - 00;38;45;15
these phones came out
at like the peak of Nokia's heyday.
00;38;45;15 - 00;38;48;25
You can go back to that previous episode
and like hear more about
00;38;48;28 - 00;38;53;07
how they got to that peak
and then how it dropped out.
00;38;53;10 - 00;38;56;01
But, you know, going into the creation of.
00;38;56;01 - 00;38;57;14
These fashion collections,
00;38;57;14 - 00;39;01;23
Nokia was holding something
like 40% of the mobile phone market,
00;39;01;25 - 00;39;04;13
but it was a moment
where it was like shifting.
00;39;04;13 - 00;39;07;04
So they were starting
to be more competition.
00;39;07;04 - 00;39;15;00
I mean, the Motorola Razr came
out like the following year,
00;39;15;03 - 00;39;18;05
and Nokia
kind of reacted by launching lots
00;39;18;05 - 00;39;22;07
and lots of products in the hope
that I guess that something was staged.
00;39;22;07 - 00;39;26;00
Like in 2004 alone,
they launched 40 products.
00;39;26;03 - 00;39;29;16
Whoa,
that's an incredible amount in one year.
00;39;29;23 - 00;39;33;25
Yeah, I guess we can really see
this was the year of
00;39;33;27 - 00;39;37;20
just utter mass production
of not just trends,
00;39;37;20 - 00;39;41;01
but also designs
and technical logical products.
00;39;41;01 - 00;39;44;09
And I guess, yeah,
also just judging from this number,
00;39;44;09 - 00;39;47;13
like from the scale of it
all, we can see that the development
00;39;47;13 - 00;39;50;18
of trends comes hand-in-hand
with the development of products.
00;39;50;18 - 00;39;56;24
And yeah, they kind of reproduce
each other and accelerate each other.
00;39;56;26 - 00;39;57;11
Yeah.
00;39;57;11 - 00;39;58;17
And I think that like,
00;39;58;17 - 00;40;02;04
you know, we have film all collection
and then we have that in series collection
00;40;02;04 - 00;40;02;17
and they had
00;40;02;17 - 00;40;05;17
other phones around this time as well,
and they were releasing other products
00;40;05;17 - 00;40;10;03
and that like they were really trying
to see where
00;40;10;05 - 00;40;14;09
like the strength of their market was
so that they could put effort into that.
00;40;14;16 - 00;40;18;08
And after this
they kind of went downhill pretty quickly.
00;40;18;08 - 00;40;21;05
And we talk about
this in the other episode
00;40;21;07 - 00;40;23;03
for a bunch of reasons.
00;40;23;03 - 00;40;26;15
A lot of that was to do with
how many products
00;40;26;15 - 00;40;30;13
they were producing,
how dispersed they were
00;40;30;16 - 00;40;33;03
that they were investing in, kind of were
00;40;33;03 - 00;40;34;24
what would turn out
to be the wrong things.
00;40;34;24 - 00;40;39;08
So they got very interested
in competing in gaming.
00;40;39;15 - 00;40;42;19
So that's when snake with a made snake
and a bet.
00;40;42;19 - 00;40;44;27
At the time that wasn't necessarily like.
00;40;44;27 - 00;40;47;23
The place to be investing. Now it is.
00;40;47;23 - 00;40;50;28
And then they also,
I think, invested from memory in
00;40;51;01 - 00;40;54;01
operating system
that just like never took off.
00;40;54;04 - 00;40;58;13
And then Apple and stuff
came through with with their own.
00;40;58;16 - 00;41;00;08
And so it's sort of like
00;41;00;08 - 00;41;03;04
when I first started looking at this
00;41;03;04 - 00;41;06;04
fashion collection topic.
00;41;06;04 - 00;41;10;11
I was like, Oh, this will be interesting
to kind of look at these weird finds.
00;41;10;14 - 00;41;14;22
And I think often
we talk about our nostalgia
00;41;14;22 - 00;41;19;15
for phones
that were unique and different designs.
00;41;19;15 - 00;41;24;16
And, you know,
now we just have this sort of same
00;41;24;18 - 00;41;27;29
rectangular
black rectangle that we all use and
00;41;28;01 - 00;41;31;12
and like all of the flip phone and like,
I missed my Motorola Razr, which.
00;41;31;12 - 00;41;34;15
Now has a new version
that talks about nostalgia.
00;41;34;15 - 00;41;40;00
But but the reality is that these phones.
00;41;40;02 - 00;41;41;06
Were it.
00;41;41;06 - 00;41;45;26
Feels like our more freedom
and more abilities to express ourselves.
00;41;45;28 - 00;41;49;14
And maybe that is what it felt like
from the consumer side.
00;41;49;14 - 00;41;51;22
But from the corporate side.
00;41;51;22 - 00;41;55;07
It was all a big plan.
00;41;55;10 - 00;41;56;01
Oh yeah.
00;41;56;01 - 00;41;58;19
You know, and that's obvious.
00;41;58;19 - 00;41;59;26
But like, I hadn't really.
00;41;59;26 - 00;42;02;16
Had it laid out so clearly to me until.
00;42;02;16 - 00;42;06;21
I guess where I realized like, Oh,
00;42;06;23 - 00;42;10;24
advertising's a lie.
00;42;10;26 - 00;42;13;01
Oh, no.
00;42;13;01 - 00;42;14;12
Yeah, it's so true.
00;42;14;12 - 00;42;17;24
Well,
I think you also hinted on this in the
00;42;17;26 - 00;42;20;06
in the first episode
with with the city man.
00;42;20;06 - 00;42;22;02
How you had
00;42;22;05 - 00;42;25;16
what was it, the city man, The talk man.
00;42;25;16 - 00;42;27;25
Action, man. The action man.
00;42;27;25 - 00;42;34;04
And then now we've got the I phone, the me
blah blah blah that you like.
00;42;34;04 - 00;42;38;18
It's, it's a lot more androgynous
or like a little
00;42;38;24 - 00;42;43;01
the individual
rather than the individual in a in a world
00;42;43;03 - 00;42;46;03
in a world that is
that is reflected back onto the well.
00;42;46;03 - 00;42;47;26
Well I wonder if that's because.
00;42;47;26 - 00;42;53;12
I mean with Apple's they have like such
a large portion of the market
00;42;53;12 - 00;42;59;17
that they don't need to be like marketing
towards specific groups or genders that.
00;42;59;17 - 00;43;03;04
They actually just have everyone
I mean, their marketing was more towards
00;43;03;04 - 00;43;07;09
like creatives versus corporate
business people I guess at the start.
00;43;07;09 - 00;43;08;11
And then
00;43;08;11 - 00;43;11;07
and they did have like a express yourself
sort of thing, but it was,
00;43;11;07 - 00;43;14;09
it was more through
like the ability to listen to music
00;43;14;09 - 00;43;18;02
and then the types of music
that you listen to is who you are.
00;43;18;07 - 00;43;23;24
Things like, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well,
I mean, yeah, it definitely has a business
00;43;23;27 - 00;43;26;08
kind of financial strategy,
this like design choice
00;43;26;08 - 00;43;29;17
and the fact that you can make everything
the same and you know, but
00;43;29;19 - 00;43;32;21
there's also the fact that
00;43;32;23 - 00;43;36;28
transparent design was invented by Apple
00;43;37;01 - 00;43;40;01
and transparent design means that
00;43;40;08 - 00;43;44;15
when you use a technology, you shouldn't
think about how you're using it.
00;43;44;15 - 00;43;47;18
You should just use it
kind of automatically
00;43;47;18 - 00;43;50;18
and I think what's his name?
00;43;50;22 - 00;43;54;13
Don Norman,
who I believe was the first user
00;43;54;13 - 00;43;57;25
experience designer ever
who was appointed by Apple.
00;43;57;27 - 00;44;03;21
He believed that technology
and the Internet and websites
00;44;03;24 - 00;44;07;29
should work like a door and a doorknob
where when you walk through a door
00;44;07;29 - 00;44;10;03
and you use a doorknob,
you don't think about the doorknob,
00;44;10;03 - 00;44;12;16
you don't think about the shape of it.
You don't think about the look of it.
00;44;12;16 - 00;44;13;25
You just use it and you open it.
00;44;13;25 - 00;44;16;08
And websites
should function in that same way.
00;44;16;08 - 00;44;20;06
But I think that definitely influenced
the kind of hardware
00;44;20;06 - 00;44;24;07
of iPhones and Apple products in general.
00;44;24;10 - 00;44;25;13
And that was just a
00;44;25;13 - 00;44;29;11
total kind of,
you know, revolution for the tech world
00;44;29;11 - 00;44;33;28
in comparison to the kind of Nokia heavily
customized phones that we used.
00;44;33;28 - 00;44;37;15
And to me,
transparent design is a disaster.
00;44;37;15 - 00;44;42;06
It's a catastrophe because you don't
think about how you use technology.
00;44;42;06 - 00;44;46;10
And that is like the problem
because it's such a kind
00;44;46;17 - 00;44;49;25
abstract thing that we are
00;44;49;25 - 00;44;54;05
less inclined to think
about the intricacies of it and sort of
00;44;54;05 - 00;44;57;25
makes us a little bit more dependent
on the kind of ruling class of tech.
00;44;57;25 - 00;45;01;25
And yeah, and if things go wrong,
you can't people don't necessarily
00;45;01;25 - 00;45;05;22
have like the abilities to troubleshoot
and like because they don't understand,
00;45;05;22 - 00;45;07;10
like how folders work.
00;45;07;10 - 00;45;12;09
Yeah, it in states
the lack of control for the consumer
00;45;12;11 - 00;45;18;24
and that's what these kind of ginormous
corporations essentially want us to do. So
00;45;18;26 - 00;45;19;20
I think that's
00;45;19;20 - 00;45;23;15
why I really like these nostalgic phones
and I like
00;45;23;19 - 00;45;27;26
these kind of plurals
like characters of phones,
00;45;27;29 - 00;45;31;18
even if they are kind of hyper masculine
or hyper feminine.
00;45;31;18 - 00;45;36;04
Like that is to me also very revealing
of how generous constructed
00;45;36;04 - 00;45;39;04
and there's something quite intriguing
about that.
00;45;39;07 - 00;45;41;05
But yeah, it was also it's also
00;45;41;05 - 00;45;44;28
a time to look back on and
00;45;45;00 - 00;45;48;07
I'm sort of glad that I'm
not in that world anymore as well.
00;45;48;07 - 00;45;51;18
So I think that's why I like what I like.
00;45;51;21 - 00;45;56;20
Think it's interesting when I was looking
at like the YouTube videos of people
00;45;56;20 - 00;46;03;05
like collectors and things
and it also it just seems like people
00;46;03;07 - 00;46;05;03
having nostalgia for these phones.
00;46;05;03 - 00;46;09;09
It's not necessarily who the market was
for these phones originally.
00;46;09;11 - 00;46;13;09
And so it's kind of
nice now to sort of revisit
00;46;13;11 - 00;46;15;12
these phones in the present moment.
00;46;15;12 - 00;46;17;03
And they have like a slightly diff.
00;46;17;03 - 00;46;20;01
They hold a slightly different meaning now
00;46;20;01 - 00;46;22;12
then than they did back then.
00;46;22;12 - 00;46;22;24
Yeah.
00;46;22;24 - 00;46;24;25
And also I was thinking about how,
00;46;24;25 - 00;46;27;23
you know, like the lipstick thing
was so hard to use.
00;46;27;23 - 00;46;28;10
Yeah.
00;46;28;10 - 00;46;31;03
But, you know, it had a little
it had the functionality of a mirror.
00;46;31;03 - 00;46;31;28
There you go.
00;46;31;28 - 00;46;34;02
But like nowadays people complain
because like,
00;46;34;02 - 00;46;37;02
their thumb doesn't reach all the way
across the screen of the iPhone.
00;46;37;02 - 00;46;41;11
You know, it's like how, how,
how much would we now
00;46;41;11 - 00;46;44;23
sacrifice the functionality for esthetics?
00;46;44;25 - 00;46;46;10
Yes, totally.
00;46;46;10 - 00;46;48;22
And even the camera phones
aren't mirrors anymore
00;46;48;22 - 00;46;53;08
because they're layered with filters
and whatever I pixel formatting there is.
00;46;53;08 - 00;46;57;24
So yeah, it's really interesting
to see that evolution and you're
00;46;57;24 - 00;47;02;16
totally right about your realization
as like these marketers just lying to you.
00;47;02;18 - 00;47;06;21
And it's important to remind us of that
when we kind of
00;47;06;21 - 00;47;11;00
do these episodes where we do a deep
dive and we start to kind of
00;47;11;02 - 00;47;12;20
not glorify but
00;47;12;20 - 00;47;17;09
become infatuated with these technologies
that, you know, we we rediscover.
00;47;17;09 - 00;47;21;18
So I mean, in a way
we've been programed to be infatuated.
00;47;21;18 - 00;47;24;18
Oh, well, exactly.
00;47;24;23 - 00;47;25;12
Yeah.
00;47;25;12 - 00;47;28;00
Like, ooh, a phone on a coat hanger.
00;47;28;00 - 00;47;33;02
That's yeah, that's the way
I just want to express myself and.
00;47;33;05 - 00;47;34;07
I though.
00;47;34;07 - 00;47;36;25
There was like, I mean, I know
we're finishing, but there was this
00;47;36;25 - 00;47;41;06
other part of the Leslie Reagan
Shay thing where she was talking about
00;47;41;08 - 00;47;44;00
how Nokia really was like pushing
00;47;44;00 - 00;47;47;22
these chic, interchangeable fabric wraps
00;47;47;29 - 00;47;51;09
allows you to impulsively change
your look as often as boldly as you.
00;47;51;09 - 00;47;52;12
Please.
00;47;52;12 - 00;47;56;23
Stay ahead of the latest trends
or simply set them yourself.
00;47;56;26 - 00;47;59;23
And then it was like
how you express yourself.
00;47;59;23 - 00;48;01;14
Yeah,
00;48;01;14 - 00;48;06;02
it's like using a phone as like a doll
or as like a mini.
00;48;06;02 - 00;48;09;19
You like a little voodoo doll?
00;48;09;22 - 00;48;10;12
Yeah.
00;48;10;12 - 00;48;15;16
And now it's like, Oh, I've decided to set
my whole phone to grayscale.
00;48;15;19 - 00;48;17;01
Night mode on.
00;48;17;01 - 00;48;29;28
All day.
00;48;30;00 - 00;48;32;23
Well, thanks for coming along
on this journey with me.
00;48;32;23 - 00;48;35;29
And everybody was saying
thank you so much.
00;48;36;01 - 00;48;37;18
That was very cool.
00;48;37;18 - 00;48;41;10
I think this was definitely
one of my faiths so far.
00;48;41;12 - 00;48;45;06
And yeah, it dressed up all of our other
previous episodes quite nicely.
00;48;45;06 - 00;48;48;22
So if any of you are interested
in looking back at those,
00;48;48;22 - 00;48;52;02
there's
we provide a little bit more context.
00;48;52;04 - 00;48;55;10
Otherwise I guess we'll start
00;48;55;16 - 00;48;58;16
looking into this a little bit deeper
in our Patreon episode.
00;48;58;16 - 00;49;01;18
Yes, come over to Patreon,
we're going to keep chatting.
00;49;01;21 - 00;49;03;27
You get to see our faces.
00;49;03;27 - 00;49;05;12
Yeah,
00;49;05;12 - 00;49;07;05
if that's of interest.
00;49;07;05 - 00;49;10;03
And you know, future things
to come as well.
00;49;10;03 - 00;49;13;20
We are potentially talking
about book club,
00;49;13;22 - 00;49;16;23
but will inform everyone about that
once we get to it.
00;49;16;23 - 00;49;19;07
So yes, come come over to Patreon.
00;49;19;07 - 00;49;20;16
With us, follow us on.
00;49;20;16 - 00;49;23;05
Instagram or on Twitter as well.
00;49;23;05 - 00;49;27;26
We have a website.
and our friends at Media Archeology Lab.
00;49;27;29 - 00;49;28;16
Thank you again.
00;49;28;16 - 00;49;31;07
Thank you for the sounds, yes.
00;49;31;07 - 00;49;32;08
Thank you, Libby.
00;49;32;08 - 00;49;33;06
Thank you, Daria.
00;49;33;06 - 00;49;36;01
Much appreciated.
00;49;36;01 - 00;49;37;21
Again, by everyone.